I can understand your situation. Living where you do is gonna provide additional challenges because most carriers won't hire from that area as it is too costly to get a driver back home. I could see it working out buying your own truck and getting on with a container company. I drove for BTT for 4 years doing container work and I enjoyed it, but with the economy the way it is they are extremely slow right now. When things are going good I think you might be able to work something out where you could fly and drive part time doing containers, they usually have longer trips that most local guys don't want to do maybe a 2-3 day trip out and back.

The problem isn't so much getting your CDL it is getting on with someone that will take newbies and hire in your area, very difficult in the real world. I would make a few contacts with local companies in the trade books or in your local newspapers/telephone book. Ask if they would hire you after completing school.


You would need probably 1 year of experience to get hired on at one of the container companies even if you own your own truck the hiring practices are pretty much the same. And then to do so on a part time basis will add more difficulties, although if the economy improves and freight gets moving again there maybe oppurtunities as some of the container drivers are hanging by a thread and won't be around when things pick back up.


I went thru the same thing 25 years ago, it's all a catch 22 you need experience to get hired on and no one will hire without exerience so it's nothing new, but will a little persistence you can make it.


If you can get on with your friends company that sounds like that maybe your best bet, is it possible to get hired on as a helper and learn the trucking side as a CDL holder? Maybe on the job training?


On a side note, I am always surprised at what some in the airline industry make, there have been a few on this board that have come here looking to better themselves, to me that seems backward.

 

Thanks for everyone's input.

So the part time idea is actually possible. I would be able to spend up to 3x 2-3 day trips a month doing this while also flying full time. If that is enough to brake even and make some profit than that would work out. Obviously I don't expect to find gigs in this economy but may be by next spring.

It would be an option to drive along my friend. He already offered it to me. I can't ask him for compensation as this is already a favor as is. After a few months he can hook me up with the company he has already hooked up two or three guys and they all worked out. I could defer my airline recall for a while if it makes sense. But I would not be surprised if they would not call until summer of 2010. Enough time to get my one year in and try the jump to containers as a part timer.

This idea seem at least to have some outlook as opposed to sitting as a security guard pretending all is well.

 

First, was the airliners you were flying like American Airlines, or maybe a small carrier?

Second, do all pilots make the same? 50k+? Really?

I ask because I have always thought that pilots got paid considerably more...

Could you list your knowledge of what airlines pay their pilots? Just a ballpark figure will do.

Thanks.

 

In order to explain airline salaries, I would need to write a bit. But if you are interested...

I was working for Spirit airlines. It is a small airline flying Airbus A319 and A321 airplanes out of SE Florida mostly. They are selling their own seats just like Delta or Southwest. They had 540 pilots and only 35 airplanes before layoffs. This is a career airline, meaning you would need to work at a different commuter airline or something equivalent to get hired there (unless you intern etc...) and with some luck you have a decent chance to move up quickly and be a Captain and enjoy the pay. If you are unlucky however they can go down and you have to start all over. In order to get that job, I was working for a larger airline in size which is a commuter also called regional airline with around 2500 pilots. (You can think of them as subcontractors to operate smaller airplanes under major airline colors.) That was an entry level job into airlines. You could get hired there without jet experience during the last few years. You could basically go from being a flight instructor teaching in a Cessna 172 to be a First Officer (copilot) on a real airliner, although it was a smaller one with only 50 seats and pay and work rules were terrible.

So the huge spread that the airlines have in salaries going from 20k to 300k a year depends on three things (more than three but three main things really):

1. Is this a time building (experience gaining) job? If so you will be willing to settle for less money because part of the compensation comes from that experience that will propell you to better jobs. Instructing was no doubt. Commuter airlines are too. That is where most green ears get their first airline experience and often jet experience flying into major airports like JFK, ORD, BOS etc... Then you can move on. However many chose to stay as Captain at a regional. They do not want to be a First officer again and the initial pay at the better job is significantly less than their current Captain pay and they simple can't afford that cut. UPS is a best paid right now but still you go from a 60-100k Captain seat of a small jet into a 30k First Officer seat at UPS flying a Boeing 757 for your first year. A year later you make 100k but that is only true at UPS or FEDEX. Anywhere else 2nd year FO pay will be anywhere from 50k-80k. Then it may jump a big one for 3rd year pay and then after it just follows a few percentage increase each year. Then you upgrade and you get a big increase as a Captain. That can take a very long time. 3-5 years at best or 10-15 years or never if you sign up with the wrong airline. At age 65 you are out of the game.

2. Captain or First Officer? Years or service? First year second year? All that makes a huge impact on pay. First Officers make about 60% of what Captains make. With years of service your pay goes up a lot, often 50% in 12 years. First year pay is low because they have to train you on their airplane and that is very expensive. So they pay less to compensate.

3. The individual company. Union vs non Union etc... The usual things just like in trucking. If you are unionized and the company has a good business model you often get paid more with each contract. (i.e Southwest) However if your union becomes too strong and the business model is outdated you soon will be in a Chapter 11 facing a salary cut and a furlough if you are close to bottom in seniority. (i.e US Air or United) That is if your company stays in business at all.

How it worked out for me:

I have trained for 4 years. (It can be done faster in may be 2 years). I was finished with training after spending around $50,000 and became a flight instructor for 14 moths. I was lucky I had to do it only for that long. I made around 12k a year doing that. That was my first job.

I got hired at a commuter and made around 20k there first year, then around 30k 2nd year. I was there for 20 months only and I was already offered an upgrade to Captain. Again I was very lucky. However I did not take it because I got even luckier (so I thought) and I could sign up with Spirit which had big plans for an expansion and a new better contract soon to come. Quick move from FO to Captain and pay increase plus I could live in base. Here I come!!!!

So I got hired at Spirit and I was going to make around 50-55k my first year, and around 70k my second. Great work rules and easy plane and destinations. Also many many day trips. Home almost every night. That was only true with overtime but overtime is really not that exhausting if you consider I still had 14 days off in my worst month after overtime. I was a bit lucky there with OT. However since we have pilots on the street folks don't fly overtime (the decent ones) and first year pay would be more around 35k, second around 55k. Captains make around anywhere from a $100k to $200k depending on their years of service, and weather they fly overtime or not.

But I got finally unlucky. I jumped ship at the worst time so I am making $10/h because nobody wants me other than security since they all know I will be back flying sooner or later. Even if that is not true they all think that.

Some airlines make significantly more, or less. Spirit is somewhat below industry average. Commuter airlines in general are rock bottom. UPS, FEDEX, Southwest are the top paid at the moment. Virgin America, Skybus (now defunct) are total bottom for airlines that are selling their own seat (not subcontracting... I call them career airlines). Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Spirit are toward the lower end close to average. All the big names like Delta, American are above average but nowhere near top like UPS. US Air, United, Continental are average.

In general pilot salaries are in the decline in part because every other kid's dream is to fly a jet so they have endless supply of labor. I can't blame them it was mine too. Also everyone is always willing to do it for less to get that experience. Unfortunately it does take thousands of hours and several airplanes and jobs to get a good pilot. 1 year of flying means absolutely zero in aviation.

If you make good bets and you get hired at places that have a good business model it can be a paradise. Ton of money, be home a lot, and the job is eeeeeeeeeeeeasy once you know what you do. If you get unlucky you get bumped around from one loser airline to the next starting over again and again... that is a financial disaster.

Sorry for the long post. I have nothing else to do...

 

Man,

That must be hard.I really feel bad for what's going on with you.Getting into trucking right now is extremely hard too.Freight is low,there is to many trucks chasing to little freight because of the slow economy.Also, companies only pick and choose their drivers since there is a surplus of that too.Experience,a clean driving record are very critical.Smallest ding on these and you're out.If i were you i would not jump the boat intro trucking right now.You will be making less that $10/hour the way things are right now.I know i have been there when i got my experience with swift and when the economy was a little better.After pulling $200/week paycheck and deduct only my food expenses i was left with nothing.

If you invested so much money into the pilot career, i would say to stick with it.Maybe look for some international jobs too.That's what i really wanted to do when i finished high school.But instead I got to drive a truck:thumbsdown:!!!Best of luck

 

Yeah Man,

Everyone is in a ditch right now. Trucking, flying you name it. It sure is a bad time to start anything. But the worst that can happen is I pay for that CDL A, not a huge investment, and I will not get a job for quite a while. Best case I get lucky and get something that is crappy and eventually get enough miles to buy my own truck and hopefully by then things will look better. You know... at least I did something and I have tried. Sitting on my ass and hoping for the best havs never ever yielded anything for me. In hungarian we have this saying: Help yourself! God will help you too. (I am an atheist by the way, but it is a good saying).

 

Wow. Tough story. Back in the '90's I trained an ex-Midway Airlines pilot when I worked for JB Hunt. He was pretty much in the same boat you are.

I don't understand why your working security. With your connections, aren't there other avation related jobs available? Re-fueling jets, traffic control, running those baggage trains out to the cargo hold, behind the reservations counter...?

 

PBCC*



* no recommendation is expressed or implied. i know nothing specific about the program.

 

They all pay nothing. Traffic control is a good job, but a completely different career, many years of training etc... The two has nothing to do with each other except that they interface.

The rest in aviation pays right about $10/h because they are time building jobs. I went back and instructed for a while but I barely made anything because suddenly there were no students overnight. Then I flew cargo at nights for $12/h hand loaded 1600 lbs cargo in and out of the plane myself each night. 11-14h on duty 6h+ flying and 6 legs each night. No A/C, late in the evening not even a place to take a leak. It was hard physical labor but above all it was very dangerous flying. Old, single engine planes over the Everglades at night. I figured for the same money (2 bucks less) I might as well sit in an office building, watch a computer monitor and act like I am very stupid.

In aviation it is either extreme expansion and everyone is hiring, or everyone is cutting. There is also little or no transition between the two phases. Pilots who get furloughed first are often in their training class still. Meaning they just got hired weeks ago. Pretty crazy.

Anyways... this thread ended up more about flying than trucking. Anyone with a reliable basic CDL A school around West Palm Beach or Ft. Lauderdale?

Anyone heard about these guys? www.cdlschool.com

 

Well, seeing as how I'm somewhat barred from driving, where did you get trained to fly?
I'm basically looking into a career that won't have me limited to living in one city for years, or relegate me to being driven/flown by someone else.