was heading north out of Louisville, KY to Cincy, and had a driver say, "...Boy oh boy, i dont see any spray coming off any of the vehicles passing me.....makes me a little worried...". So i said, "spray dont mean anything." To which he responded, "...yeah, but most of the time, when you dont see any, is a good sign that the road is slick." So i said, "yeah, but what about the other times...". =)

a couple more pics of drivers doing a "good job". Was told, the one driver actually jackniffed the tractor-trailer, but somehow got it straight again and pulled it off to the side of the road. You can see the trailer basicly snapped like a bone.

 

I only asked, because if you swatted a car, why would you NOT think it was your fault? You failed to have control? period. as far as the 'not knowing if/where there is ice'...use your head. If it was snowing, and you know its below 30 (yeah i know freezing is 32) then just ASSUME there is ice. You should also be able to tell if there is ice, if you are at a stop light, or in the yard/truck stop, and you spin your tires when you THINK it should (or looks) dry or not icy. Granted, at night you cannot really SEE the black ice, but then again you cant really SEE black ice in broad daylight on asphalt.

Also, do you remember that American Eagle flight 4184 that crashed in Roselawn, Indiana on Halloween in 1994? It crashed due to icing conditions as they flew circles holding for clearance to land at Chicago O'Hare. Although it was found that the water falling on the wing was still liquid, but the temp was below freezing, the water had enough energy within the droplett to remain liquid. So what ended up happening, was the water struck the leading edge of the wing, and was able to 'run' aft, past the protective de-ice boot THEN freeze. Making the boot unable to 'clean' the wing of ice.

Same holds true for water on the roadway. It can be 30 degrees, but the road wont freeze. And it dont freeze because the energy saved up in the water because of the moving traffic. The road WILL freeze with the same conditions, if there was little to no traffic.

 

kevin!!

 

Obviously, you're going to need far more practice and insight. I've seen snowflakes coming down the size of chicken feathers at 44 degrees F. Got snowed in just west of Omaha, NE during a "thundersnowstorm" back in '97 with the outside temp at 40 degrees. The pavement was not warm enough to keep up melting it as fast as it came down.

I've also been driving through rain storms, with wet water coming down out of the sky, and the temps outside were between 19 and 28 degrees.

Which one do you think was slicker?

Are you thinking about Roselawn, IN? Or perhaps Shererville, IN where the plane iced up, fell out of the sky, and all 58 people were killed? Would have been about '96 or so.

Care to give us a link that explains it in this manner? If you trust what you've written here, this should be your last winter to survive behind the wheel. No wonder you were always talking about not taking loads that went into bad weather.

 

as far as the american eagle flight, no....it was operated by simmons as american eagle...flight number was 4184, it DID crash in Roselawn, Indiana, and it WAS on halloween in 1994. I receive the NTSB crash reports since US Air crash in charlotte (wonder why i wasnt a tin kicker) and read them more than a few times cover to cover.

as far as a link that explains my example, just google 'supercooled water droplet. The same idea works on a roadway. If you cannot remember 'back in the day' driving on wet pavement, when you KNOW it was 30 degrees, and you KNEW the road was not slick but yet you still saw spray AND tire tracks left behind, then how can you explain how that same road freezes when the temp remains the same, and there is no traffic. If everything stays the same except for the fact that the amount of traffic has dropped to 1 car a minute (lets say) compared to 10 cars in 5-10 seconds, and you notice the roadway is now freezing, it is pretty obvious that the amount of cars is what allows the roadway to then freeze. there is energy imparted to the water with each passing tire. it is basic physics.

You said "No wonder you were always talking about not taking loads that went into bad weather." but yet I ended up taking them even in my first winter season in 08-09. I took a load from Morris, IL. to Detroit, during one of their first BAD storms, and ended up parking it at the very next rest area because i drove thru a wreck that just happened 5 minutes before. Does winter driving not worry me? I'd be a complete fool to say it doesn't. If you don't respect the big truck you're operating (in wet or dry) and feel totally 'comfortable' driving it like you do a passenger car, you've got no business behind the wheel of a 80,000lb lethal weapon.

There is no load on this planet that i could ever haul that is worth me taking a chance rolling my truck, or losing control on black ice, or following too closely behind a church van full of teen agers, then plow into them, then wonder why i'm in jail on 10 counts of manslaughter.

But aren't you one of the many on this board who told me that i'd never make it as a driver? that i'd wash out within a few months? LOL....how pathetic

 

Well, then you shouldn't have any problem confirming the commuter flight that was bound for Midway Airport in Chicago. Also took off from Indianapolis. First of all, the plane was not certified to fly in icing conditions.

Your theory of super-cooling of water on the highways is not going to work. I am quite familiar with the way that water can be cooled to below freezing. First of all, it must be PURE water. Distilled water. The water that comes out of the sky is not pure. It's clear, and you can drink it without ill effects, but it is not pure. And, once it falls on the road surface, it is even less pure. Second, once the temp is below freezing, any kind of disturbance at all, and it will freeze solid instantly,even slamming a door on the opposite side of the room. The traffic on the highway gives the water the effect of molecules in motion, ie: running water does not freeze as easily. However, the traffic is seldom close enough together to have that effect, and secondly, the tire tracks are not in the same path, and the water that is not forced out of the way is allowed to freeze. So, your theory of super-cooling on the roadway is invalid. It still comes down to the temp of the road surface that the rain falls on. If it has been below freezing, the water will freeze anytime of the day, and no matter what traffic is doing. If it has been above freezing, the water will likely not freeze. If the temp has been right at the freezing mark, you are likely to see wet roads during the day, and at night when the sun goes down, it will freeze solid regardless what the traffic is doing.

I'm generally not the one to put something like that into those words. I can admit that I did not have a lot of faith in you, and I can also admit that I do not have much more faith in you right now. I read your posts, and I do see one major problem for you. You've survived your first winter, much to your credit, but that is only the first winter. Obviously, you did learn a lot. But in reading your posts, you know "TOO MUCH". It suggests that you are over-confident.

You see, Kevin. I'm currently retired. My driving is behind me, and I have a clean record. No matter what the weather was, I have no preventable accidents on my record. None. You have been through one winter. How many years do you have to go to catch up to me? ten? Twenty? A lot of time for many things to happen. While I sincerely hope you do not have a mishap, the fact is that my liability is over, and yours is just beginning.

The things you post suggest that you feel you know more than I do. For the next number of years you will come up with things about driving, and I've already been there and done that. Let me know when they give you a load to Holloman Airforce Base, and you are given a tour of the base.

And, when it comes to scientific data and facts, (like super-cooling water) I was not always a driver. I started out as a technician, worked as an engineer, and was a project engineer for 7 years before becoming a driver. There are bound to be things that you know which I do not, but they are going to be few and far between, and this is not one of them.

 

Yeah??? Well.... if it falls over, HOW you gonna tell??? :lol2:

 

Good one!!!
While on the subject of ice, how about when it rains and then freeze's while the air temp is well above freezing? It happens often in the early spring or a winter thaw when the grond is still 32 or below

 

Back, before I drove a truck, when I was driving a school bus, there was one time when I got to see a basketball moving off the road, toward the ditch, and it was not turning. It was sliding.
And, that is exactly my point. As I posted earlier, It depends on the temp of the road surface. And, it's not a matter of super-cooling anything. Not on the road surface, anyhow.

 

hey wind...u might wanna pull up the PDF of the 4184 accident, it was bound for ORD not MDW. Why would Eagle fly into MDW when their hub was ORD?? another major hub is DFW (not DAL)

as far as having to "catch up with" you, i didnt know this was a contest? And why would i waste my time worrying about what someone else thinks of me?? Or compairing myself to you or anybody else? Made it thru 1 winter? maybe....but give another month, and i'll have 2 under my belt. I'll admit i'm a little over confident when it comes to my safety, cause i know what scares the Shatner out of me, and what doesn't. That is why i'll NEVER be one of these fools who parks their big truck in the ditch like the pictures posted on here. Why? Because I want to be sure i get home. Screw the customer getting their freight on time. Like an airline pilot flying a 777 full of passengers. S/he isnt worried about all the lives that are behind them. If they worry about getting themselves home at night safe, then the rest will follow. I know enough that when conditions force me to slow down to 20-30 mph, i'm giving myself a good football field space between me and the person in front of me. And if it gets much worse, i park it. Period. These "professional drivers" who park it in the ditch lose control because they either didnt give themselve enough space, didnt look far enough ahead of them and/or were driving too fast. period.