just a little confused.....
#1
just a little confused.....
This is really too stupid a question to even be asking at this point. I THINK i know the answer to this, but seeing how i had 2 log violations in 3 days, all because somehow i miss calculated my 10 hour break....
I was heading out of Temple, TX, and had had a fresh 11/14hr clocks. seeing how i only got an hour or two of sleep here and there, i wasnt really that well rested. I started my clock going to line 4 at 11:45p. I did a 15 min pretrip, hooked, another 15, and just for the fun of it, showed 15 driving. So i was on line 3 at midnight-thirty. I knew when my 11 hours were up after i took a 2 hour nap (boy it sure helped), and was able to make it to El Paso with 5 min. (technically no time) left to spare for my 11, and i still wanted to top off before parking for my 10. My question is this, and i think i know the answer, but does your 11/14 hr clock start the moment you drop to line 4, yes? The way i was told in school and by the log class i took, it does. How the guy teaching the log class said that you could be on line 4 for 24 hours....there is no limit to how many hours you can work on duty not driving (except when you reach your 70 for 8 days). You just cannot work more than 14, and then go to line 3 without a 10 hour break. (or doing your split sleeper thing). guess the thing throwing me off now (more parinoid than anything i guess) is 'working' past my 14 on line 4. Like today, i had 30 min left to 'work' in my 14. i didnt exceed that, so that isnt a question, but lets say the way i timed it, my 11 and 14 ended at exactly the same time, and i still needed to show a post trip and/or fuel?? can i still legally do it? Guess my next purchase is paying for the full version of the Driver Daily Log program for my laptop. have it downloaded, just dont have the full 'purchased' version. Would save me from getting more violations, and would help me by flagging my 10, 11 and 14 hr benchmarks.
#2
Yes. You need not show any time for a post trip; just flag it and/or include it with your fuel time and you can do anything but drive at the end of your 14.
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#3
The way i was told in school and by the log class i took, it does. How the guy teaching the log class said that you could be on line 4 for 24 hours....there is no limit to how many hours you can work on duty not driving (except when you reach your 70 for 8 days). You just cannot work more than 14, and then go to line 3 without a 10 hour break. (or doing your split sleeper thing).
guess the thing throwing me off now (more parinoid than anything i guess) is 'working' past my 14 on line 4. Like today, i had 30 min left to 'work' in my 14. i didnt exceed that, so that isnt a question, but lets say the way i timed it, my 11 and 14 ended at exactly the same time, and i still needed to show a post trip and/or fuel?? can i still legally do it?
#4
Kevin said:
This is really too stupid a question to even be asking at this point.
I THINK i know the answer to this, but seeing how i had 2 log violations in 3 days, all because somehow i miscalculated my 10 hour break....
I was heading out of Temple, TX, and had had a fresh 11/14hr clocks. seeing how i only got an hour or two of sleep here and there, i wasnt really that well rested. I started my clock going to line 4 at 11:45p. I did a 15 min pretrip, hooked, another 15, and just for the fun of it, showed 15 driving. So i was on line 3 at midnight-thirty. I knew when my 11 hours were up after i took a 2 hour nap (boy it sure helped), and was able to make it to El Paso with 5 min. (technically no time) left to spare for my 11, and i still wanted to top off before parking for my 10.
So, you had 10:45 hours of driving time to go about 612 miles. That's an average of about 57 mph in a 65/70 mph state. Is your truck governed below 65mph? Or less than 60 mph for that matter? Yes, you had to BE there (and stop driving) 14 hours after you went on duty. But, once you stopped driving, you had as much time as you needed to fuel, park,etc for the night.
My question is this, and i think i know the answer, but does your 11/14 hr clock start the moment you drop to line 4, yes?
I would say, not exactly. Your 14 started when you first went "on duty." But, your 11 didn't start until you went to line 3. And ONLY includes time SPENT on line 3. But, you cannot spend any time on line 3 AFTER the end of your 14 hour clock without the required break.
The way i was told in school and by the log class i took, it does. How the guy teaching the log class said that you could be on line 4 for 24 hours....there is no limit to how many hours you can work on duty not driving (except when you reach your 70 for 8 days).
You just cannot work more than 14, and then go to line 3 without a 10 hour break. (or doing your split sleeper thing).
guess the thing throwing me off now (more parinoid than anything i guess) is 'working' past my 14 on line 4. Like today, i had 30 min left to 'work' in my 14.
i didnt exceed that, so that isnt a question, but lets say the way i timed it, my 11 and 14 ended at exactly the same time, and i still needed to show a post trip and/or fuel?? can i still legally do it?
Guess my next purchase is paying for the full version of the Driver Daily Log program for my laptop. have it downloaded, just dont have the full 'purchased' version. Would save me from getting more violations, and would help me by flagging my 10, 11 and 14 hr benchmarks.
Caveat: I have never driven a truck that wouldn't do at least 65 or 70 mph. I suppose this logging thingie is more difficult for drivers of slower trucks. But, you had 11 hours of driving time.... WITHIN the 14 hour window..... to drive 627 miles total. That's STILL only a 57mph average. The COWS walk faster than that in TEXAS!!! :hellno: I know we all think that dispatchers are totally stoopid, but the fact is... they aren't. They have computers that tell them that a certain load CAN go a certain number of miles within LEGAL limits of the HOS and speed limits. That is their JOB! That is how they keep our economy running "Just in time." WE are supposed to HELP them, and our company, by doing our part! I'm not saying to take a "hit" for them. I'm saying we should WORK with them IF it is a legal load! You need a nap? Fine! Work your logs around it! THEY may not have accounted for that need. Nor should WE expect them to. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... OTR trucking is NOT for Wusses! That's what LOCAL jobs are for! :lol2:
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#5
The Rev almost had this right.... okay.... he had it right in his OWN way. :lol2: I would say, not exactly. Your 14 started when you first went "on duty." But, your 11 didn't start until you went to line 3. And ONLY includes time SPENT on line 3. But, you cannot spend any time on line 3 AFTER the end of your 14 hour clock without the required break. And FYI:
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Let me put it another way.... your combined time on line 3 AND 4 does NOT have to STOP at the end of 14 hours.
#6
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: East Central IL between the corn and the beans
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I want to clarify one point made here. Your 14 hour clock starts as soon as you drop to line 3 or 4. In other words as soon as you come on duty in any way, shape, or form.
or with a split sleeper berth.
BTW: Before attempting to use a split sleeper berth you need to do two things. 1. Make sure you fully understand how it works and how to calculate all of your different hours. 2. Make sure the company you are driving for allows it. Because it is so easy to mess up there are some companies that do not allow it and will issue a log book violation (which is really a company policy violation).
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#7
Board Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 460
guess the thing throwing me off now (more parinoid than anything i guess) is 'working' past my 14 on line 4. Like today, i had 30 min left to 'work' in my 14. i didnt exceed that, so that isnt a question, but lets say the way i timed it, my 11 and 14 ended at exactly the same time, and i still needed to show a post trip and/or fuel?? can i still legally do it.
#8
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: pod# 110 -Shared with a high risk in a red jumper.
Posts: 2,240
That happens because many drivers really are stupid , And I'm not joking when I say that . There are many drivers who have a good head on their shoulders , But unfortunately because it is so easy/quick to get a CDL and get hired on with a mega carrier you have drivers that often lack the basic Math skills to count change or do a log book . I think one thing that could help change this would be allowing a person only 1 chance every 6 months to a Year at passing the CDL basic knowledge tests at the DMV when obtaining the learners permit , maybe allowing them to be able to fail one of the tests 1x and retake it 1x if they almost passed it ,But none of these multple attempts in a week attempting to pass a test that is so easy it should be a 1 shot deal .
#9
That happens because many drivers really are stupid , And I'm not joking when I say that . There are many drivers who have a good head on their shoulders , But unfortunately because it is so easy/quick to get a CDL and get hired on with a mega carrier you have drivers that often lack the basic Math skills to count change or do a log book . I think one thing that could help change this would be allowing a person only 1 chance every 6 months to a Year at passing the CDL basic knowledge tests at the DMV when obtaining the learners permit , maybe allowing them to be able to fail one of the tests 1x and retake it 1x if they almost passed it ,But none of these multple attempts in a week attempting to pass a test that is so easy it should be a 1 shot deal .
Yes, there are truckers out there that didn't excel in math class. My own brother uses his fingers to count! (boy, was I surprised when I found THAT out!) But, the 14 hour rule IS quite confusing. And split logging is even more so. I'm a friggin GENIUS and I make mistakes now and then, both in TALKING about it (as the Rev likes to point out) and even occasionally on my log sheet! (twice in 3.5 years IIRC.) :lol2: I don't see any NEED to ridicule American workers who put their lives on the line to drive trucks for not being mathematical geniuses. Nor for their sometimes limited use of the language. They are doing something that MANY Americans could never do! If I had to know how to fix the dang MOTOR, I might not be allowed to drive a truck! (I do understand most of it, but I ain't no mechanic!) What is required MOSTLY here, is the ability to drive the thing, shift the gears, and back it into a dock! And more importantly, the sense to not run over the "mortals." Math is important yes.... but, it's not a deal breaker the way you imply.
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Remember... friends are few and far between. TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!! "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.
#10
Senior Board Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: pod# 110 -Shared with a high risk in a red jumper.
Posts: 2,240
Funny.... I may be wrong, but I don't remember a SINGLE question on the "computerized" written CDL basic knowledge test that related to the 11/14 hour rules. Or MATH in general, for that matter.
Yes, there are truckers out there that didn't excel in math class. My own brother uses his fingers to count! (boy, was I surprised when I found THAT out!) But, the 14 hour rule IS quite confusing. And split logging is even more so. I'm a friggin GENIUS and I make mistakes now and then, both in TALKING about it (as the Rev likes to point out) and even occasionally on my log sheet! (twice in 3.5 years IIRC.) :lol2: I don't see any NEED to ridicule American workers who put their lives on the line to drive trucks for not being mathematical geniuses. Nor for their sometimes limited use of the language. They are doing something that MANY Americans could never do! If I had to know how to fix the dang MOTOR, I might not be allowed to drive a truck! (I do understand most of it, but I ain't no mechanic!) What is required MOSTLY here, is the ability to drive the thing, shift the gears, and back it into a dock! And more importantly, the sense to not run over the "mortals." Math is important yes.... but, it's not a deal breaker the way you imply. No hos are not on the basic skills test at the DMV ,but if you do not posess the basic intelligence to read/comprehend some very easy to remember material ,and then easily pass a ...multiple choice...style question test odds are you are going to have issues with everything else ...including the basic common sense portion involved in driving . |
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