Icing/Gelling up
#11
12-09-2006, 08:41 PM
No you're not wrong old style Cats and Macks were worse for freezing up than Cummins because they didn't return as much heated fuel to the tanks. Now pretty much all the engine use variations of they same kind of fuel systems so they return heated fuel to the tanks thereby reducing gelling and freezing problems.
#12
12-09-2006, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by mrpersons
One of the popular misconceptions I've heard time after time, is that if you let your fuel level get low, the water and crud will get picked up. Fuel level being low has nothing to do with it. Fuel is always picked up from the bottom of the tank, some even have a "well" in the bottom from which to "draw" from. You <u>want</u> to pickup from the bottom of the tank, so the water can be drawn through the primary fuel filter, gravity will cause it to remain there to be either drained off, or disposed of by a filter change. If that water remains in the bottom of the tank or suction line, it will freeze, and things get real quiet, real fast! That's probably what happened to your dad's truck.
Gelling is a different deal having to do with the "cloud" point of the fuel being used. That when the parafines (wax) in the fuel actually strart to clump together due to falling temps. It will actually "gel" together enough that the wax will start to clog the fuel filter, and things get quiet again. Normally you don't have to be to concerned about this until the temps get down into the teens with good quality No2 diesel. Much below that you can use No1, which is simply No2 that's been diluted with Kerosene to reduce it's cloud point. Another method is to use an anti-gel additive, such as howes. Most trucks are equipped with some sort of fuel heater, the purpose of which is to keep the temp of the fuel high enough above the cloud point for the fuel to pass through the fuel filter without clogging it. I don't know about the other brands of anti-gel additives, but I've used Howes down to -20deg with no fuel heater (element burned out) with no problems useing a mix ratio of 1gl to treat 300gl. Another thing, never ever, ever, spray water anywhere near the truck when the fuel tanks are open, as when fueling (dumbest thing I've ever seen, it's like committing suicide), a little alcohol is a good thing to help that water be carried through to the fuel filter, but Howes will do the same thing. Hope you'all have a good, safe winter drive! One other thing, buy only good quailty diesel from a place that sell lots of it. You'll probaly pay more, but one tow or service call on the side of the road ain't cheap either, besides, it's cold out there, and I like heat...
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#13
12-09-2006, 10:31 PM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: jackassville (winnipeg, mb)
Posts: 3,280
Originally Posted by eplurubus
Theoretically, shouldn't the fuel-return system alleviate the gelling problem? Obviously it doesn't, but it seems like it should. I mean, if heated fuel is returning to the tanks, fuel gelling problems should be extinct. So, why do we still have this problem?? I know that every time I remove my fuel-tank caps, I see steam coming up out of the tank (technically, it's probably not "steam", but you know what I mean). I've been in Canada, Wisconsin, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan when it was extremely cold, and I didn't have a problem with my fuel gelling, simply because I believe that the returned fuel kept the fuel in my tanks warm. I'm probably wrong about this, but naivete is a wonderful thing.
Every problem I've seen the filters have been empty with a massive suction sound when you take this off. This indicates to me there is a blockage between the tank and the first fuel filter. In other words, ice has built up on a fitting. If the filter was full of very thick stuff, then I would say the fuel has 'gelled'. I have yet to see it. GMAN, did you actually see the diesel itself thicken? I don't know about smaller drops, maybe. Basically the stuff lowers the freezing point of water. That is, if you can get the stuff to mix. That's the key. I've seen where those fancy several thousand dollar tank heaters have failed guys. The problem isn't ever in the tanks, it's in the lines.
#14
12-10-2006, 01:29 AM
post
Yes geling actually happens because of the reasons mcpersons mentioned, my tanks gelled up in chicago in 93. The temp with wind chill went to -50 to -80 at night for a week, and my tanks hit that cloud pt you could see the clumps of parafin and wax (which was which; I don't know) floating in the fuel. That is when I stopped buying the .20 to .25cpg cheaper fuel across from the flying j in gary in.; I don't remember the name of the place. My friend bought his fuel at the "J", me across the street, we had exact trucks and engines and ran the same places. That week he made more than me.
#15
12-10-2006, 02:09 AM
During the winter of 93 (or was it 94?), sometime around there, we had a hell of a freeze going on for about a month. I remember being in Va, picking up paper going to Montreal when it was -10, by time I got up into NY state, it was -20, trucks all over the side of the road. I fueled up just before crossing into Canada, the truck stop was down to one pump working, and it was slow as hell. It was -30 in Montreal, and one tank, the one without the return was frozen, but I managed to get some more fuel in the other one. Next day I went up to a drop lot at a paper mill about 50mi north of Montreal, the temp was -52degrees, we had to use a blowpipe (large propane torch) to thaw the 5th wheel enough to unlatch it and get under another trailer. I also used the blowpipe to heat up the frozen tank enough to get some of it going at least for awhile. I made it with that load down to NJ, then headed out of there along 80 to ohio. Along the way, I counted over 200 abandoned trucks on the side of the highway! It warmed up to 5 degrees above zero in the next coupla days. You would thought we was in a heat wave!!
That's the coldest I've ever seen it on the road, and I never want to see it again. I was fairly new then, but lucky more than prepared. But it was a good lesson, and I haven't forgot it. Weather like that can kill the unprepared.
#18
12-10-2006, 01:20 PM
I just overdose the fuel tanks with additive. A good idea also, is to put big, easy to get to, pet-cocks on the air tanks. Drain them at least everyday.
along with a plastic wrapped metal cord to attach so you don't have to be partly underneath the truck getting dirty. :P
#19
12-10-2006, 06:23 PM
Mcpersons; I think we are refering to the same year, because I could not remember if it was 93 or 94. That year the east coast had 17 snow storms of which I was in 13, the chicago area hit -80 for a week, I gelled up, kentucky and tennesee had that ice storm that shut down kentucky and I-40 in tn. I-40 was covered with broken tree limbs from end to end, memphis lost power for several days, and then just the usual storms across the north west. I was pretty much broke that winter running for .80cpm and not much help. Then the impossible happened, total stupidity; driving 70 mph across wyoming, a big storm the previous night, over 3 sisters I hit a bridge that was solid ice, and yes: I went full 90 across it ,hit the other side and God's big hand reached down and straightened the truck out. Not a scratch in it, I found a place to pull over and offered up 15 minutes of prayer of thanks-- got back behind the wheel and counted the rest of my blessings as I crossed wy. and saw the havoc the storm wreaked on many other drivers; the previous night. As it was told 5 drivers shook hands with the angels that night.
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