Steve, it sounds to me as though you need to hone your negotiating skills. EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE. Some brokers won't go up. Most will, especially if the load needs to move. It is very rare that I have spoken with a broker when they will not go up. Hauling cheap freight is a choice, just like hauling for an acceptable rate. When you buy a car do you pay the sticker price or the first offer? Most of us don't. Of course, the car dealer will love you if you walk in and write him a check for the full purchase price. To me, this is a business. A business must be profitable to be viable. I have been around this business for a lot of years. I would not have been able to do so by hauling cheap freight. There is a lot of talk about the mega carriers. It might surprise you to know that 80% of the freight is hauled by carriers with 20 or fewer trucks. It isn't the major carriers who haul most of the freight, it is the smaller carriers. If 80% of the carriers refused to haul below a certain level, rates would go up. I can't speak for everyone, but I will not haul freight below a certain rate. Rather than haul something that is not profitable, I will sit for a day or deadhead out of the area. That is a choice that I make. It is the right thing to do for my business and profitability. Besides, I don't like encouraging these cheap brokers or shippers. :P

 

Where to begin :shock: :lol:

Flowers...we used to haul flowers out of Miami. $1.30+FSC+$30/stop. Always went to the NW and usually ended up being about $1.70/mile. Usually 10-12 stops but there was a key to each place because the flowers had to go right into a cooler so we could deliver 24/7. Was a nice gig since you could always get stuff to FL. But it was through a carrier and they started to nickel and dime us on stuff and not pay on time. Finally I said "No more." Tough to give up freight like that, but it wasn't worth the aggravation. So there's a long-winded answer to your question about flowers. They can pay well, especially considering it's Florida freight. Most of it is teams although there is some stuff that goes on solos. If you're interested, PM me and I'll give you the name of the company we pulled them for. Things may have changed rate-wise, lots of companies are getting into flowers. I know Prime has moved into it big time and Armellini has alwasy been the big boy on the block. Watch this winter. Leading up to Xmas there is a little bump and then the 2-3 weeks before Valentine's there's a huge rush. Great rates coming out of FL then.

GMAN was right about most brokers holding out on the rate until it HAS to go. However, there are brokers out there who don't have to squeeze their freight until it screams. These guys get the freight out the door and move on to the next one. They don't want to have to hassle with trying to move the same load all week long for a couple hundred extra bucks. These guys will offer freight days before it has to go and for a decent rate. Unfortunately, most of this freight doesn't hit the boards because these guys don't have trouble finding trucks. But once in awhile they get stuck and can't find a truck right away. I always check the boards at least once each day while we're heading somewhere. Every once in awhile we luck out and are able to book something early. If I can book something 2 days early and have it waiting for me when I unload, that's worth an extra dime a mile to me. So, while 90% of my freight is booked on arrival, it's still worth it to check everyday once you know where you're heading. You never know what might pop up.

Everybody handles their phone calls a little differently. I cycle through all my questions regarding locations, commodity, weight, etc. If by this time they haven't asked for or offered a rate, I'll ask, "And what are they giving you guys on this one?" If they give me a rate and it's close, I'll usually say that it sounds like it's in the neighborhood but I need to verify a few things and I'll call them back in 5 minutes. I break everything down and call back with a counter...that's about the extent of my negotiating. If they offer a load that's a good rate, I don't dicker. I say that's fair and accept. If they offer a low-ball rate I say, "Sorry, that won't work for us." Often they ask what it would take and I tell them, "Really, you guys aren't even in the neighborhood so I won't waste your time or mine." They may actually have a lot more in it and maybe I'm leaving money on the table, but that makes the offer even more insulting and I don't waste my time.

One more thing, when you call on a load, be sure you have an amount in mind. You need to know if they're in the ballpark with their offer or you need to be able to offer a quote of your own if they ask. If they ask what you'd need and you can't give them a number, you appear not to know your business. There's no excuse for not having something in mind since you've got the basic info before you ever call.

Diesel, you're certainly right about not buying fuel in WA the last couple of weeks, what a spike :shock: However, for a good portion of the summer WA was cheaper than ID or MT if you're coming across 90. Of course that's "true price" ex-tax.

 

In case you couldn't tell from my long-winded response, I'm back home now :lol:

 

Big mistake taking this load in not checking fuel prices. I can't believe they are that high in WA. I just figured it out, the very first load I got on my own I did just over 1800 miles ALL miles driven and it averaged out to $1.70 a mile. I have no idea why I took this load for this price. I guess the shock of going out on my own, I panicked.

Anyway, Steve I think it is a blanket statement to say that you can sit and it won't make a difference. In that I mean it obviously depends on where you are. I have now posted myself 3 times. Once in Chicago, once in Michigan and once in Florida. For Chicago and Michigan the phone did not stop. For Florida in probably 8 hours I got ONE call and all he wanted was for me to go from Jacksonville to Deerfied Beach (15 minutes from my house, I was tempted.) with a supposed possible load out of there which was a big fat lie I'm sure.

Obviously in Florida I could have sat there for 3 weeks and not got another penny more. But in the other two I think I could have. I would like you to clarify please on the areas that you sat for 3 days. Where they "good" areas?

On another note, I have often wondered why they call Steve a hobby trucker? I don't mean this negatively against anyone nor do I want to interject myself into an argument but I think that just because someone buys a truck and gets their own authority that that doesn't make them a business owner.

I think, in my opinion, that there is a difference between a businessman such as GMAN and others, and those that are self-employed which is what I think Steve is and probably myself right now.

Just because someone goes and buys a hammer doesn't make them a contractor. I also think we all have different levels of ambition. I personally would like to build a business. I could probably just do what I am doing and live just fine as my wife also works. But I don't want that, I want something else; I want more. I dont think Steve hauls for cheap just to get to another part of the country as a tourist. He's reached his level of comfort and I personally don't see the problem with that. We all have our optimum.

Now that I have been in Meijers up in Michigan and looked into them, I read that they were supposedly the first to come up with the Super store concept. I wonder why they are so big yet never grew out of their region. What's the difference between a Meijer and a Walmart? I guess everything has their own optimum.

As long as somebody is not deliberately ruining the rates (and I doubt one person could do that) just to travel around, then I see no problem that one person would want less then another might want and I don't mean the rate because only a fool, which I don't think Steve is, would not get as much money as they can.

 

Hey No_Worries thanks for the reply. Actually I think we both posted at the same time, I want to reply but it's late now and I want to get to bed. I'm close to the WI/MN border parked at a McDonalds so I can get my Iced Coffee in the morning. Man you wouldn't believe how much I love those things.

Anyway you made some great points and I will post back manana if I get the internet. Looking at those fuel prices are making me sick :roll: . By the way my IFTA taxes were $33 this quarter so not bad I guess. Enjoy your hometime!

 

Yup Merrick, I agree and have seen the same as far as sitting and no phone calls at all. I've called and there is no negotiation. This is what it pays and that's that.

I've also been in the good freight areas and my phone rings non stop and I could sit there for a day or 2 and pretty much get whatever I wanted for a load. Some times these brokers don't call and tell me how much it pays but rather how much will it take to get me to move. In an area like that I could make the statement "I won't move for less than $2.00 per mile".

Go to Rock Springs WY and you can bend over. The last time I ended up there I got $2.25 for the trip and it was a long one. When the broker called about a load going there I finally had the experience to say, Rock Springs!!!! That place blows and I'm going to need this much money to go there and I got it. I think I got $1.35 to get out of there so in the end it averaged out to an OK trip.

I could stay in the PA, NY and OH area and run 500 mile trips for $2.00+ but that would surely be the worst job I could imagine. Give me the long runs and open roads and I'm happy for sure.

 

One more step to add to your pre-quote regimen. Pull up flyingj.com or dieselboss.com and check fuel stops on your route. I look at the stops along a route I'm likely to fuel at then take the most expensive of those and use that as my fuel cost for quoting purposes. That way I'm insulated against any regional differences or spikes during the trip.

Fuel patterns change all the time. For most of the middle of the summer there was an unusual pattern in which the fuel was actually cheaper the further west you went. WA was the best spot to buy coming across 90 and CA was cheapest coming in on 40. AZ was cheaper than NM which was cheaper than TX, etc. That's not a normal pattern. However, a couple of weeks ago things switched around and have gotten back to normal. I did a run from CA to SC and fuel was cheaper or the same in every state moving east with the exception of GA.

I'm not talking pump price but the net cost; pump price minus state tax. That's the true price you pay for your fuel and the only one that should concern you.

 

Merrick..Just a suggestion..wait until you get to Kent Wa before buying your chains, then buy them at the Utility Trailer dealer there. They are by far, the most resonably priced dealer in the area, and half what you would pay at a truckstop. The shop foreman there will usually get a set of hangers mounted in decent time, if you buy both the chains and the hangers from utility. They will also help you size the chains. Second cheapest would be Husky Truck Center in Tukwila.

 

Buy the chains in OR and you wont pay any taxes. :wink:

 

Merrick....I am glad to see you are doing well. I agree with you on the "hobby trucker" thing. Steve is like alot of us and wants to go certian places and see different things so he will work himself to the area he wants to be in. Sometimes rates are crappy in those areas and we have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.

We were just in FL and there was NOTHING coming out for over $1.00 mile so we DH out to Savannah GA and got a load from there to TN now we are looking at some LTL to put on the wagon for the NW. We also like running west and do NOT like being cooped up on the East coast!!

Everyone has their own style and we are all different. I do agree with GMAN and Steve could hone his negotiating skills and that will come in time, I think. I hope he carefully plans his trip to WA cause fuel is a killer out there right now, but if you plan right you can come out OK.

tootie