Caterpillar, Navistar to jointly make, sell trucks | Reuters

 

They take a Perkins, paint it yellow and call it a CAT apu motor.

 

So what's left? Detroit and Come-Apart?

 

Detroit 60 series and the mercedes will be no longer come next month. Detroit will have the DD13, DD15, and DD16. These of course will only be available in freightliners/western stars.

Navistar will only have a "maxforce" 13 litre for a while, with a 15 litre coming in about a year(maxipillar). The maxforce 13 litre will be the ONLY engine available for 2010 in Navistar trucks.

Paccar will have its own engine, the paccar 12.9 MX. It is a European design. They will be available for Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks.

Volvo will have its own engines, 11 litre 13 litre and 16 litre. Mack will have the same engines, just tuned a little differently. Same block crank and head though.

Cummins is the only near industry wide engine. The ISX is a 15 litre engine, and the ISX11.9 is the smaller 11.9L engine. Both should be available on every truck except for Navistar trucks. Both engines will feature a European inspired fuel system that allows more flexibility and a wider sweet spot.

As far as who will have it together for 2010? I have no idea. All platforms seem to have problems. If the DD13 gets turbocompounding, that will be a very good engine. Watch for the ISX11.9 as well. One thing is for sure, stay AWAY from the Navistar engines. Overcomplicated pieces of crap, with way too many heat exchangers for the engine, and a complicated cooling system. I believe around 40% of the exhaust will go back into the engine. When Navistars credits run out(their engines are NOT 2010 compliant, produce about twice as much NOx as required) I see them switching to SCR. If they're stubborn like Cat, they'll go out of business like Cat. Apparently they lost their head engineer recently.

 

I really don't like the idea of a brand specific engine such as Volvo, Navistar, etc., Given the choices you mentioned, Allan, I would opt for Cummins. I would expect that Paccar and Navistar would both experience problems with any new engine. I am not one that usually jumps in with new technology. I prefer to see how it performs for a while before spending my money. I don't want to be one of the Guinea pigs to work out the bugs.

 

Is Paccar manufacturing their own engines or is another company in Europe or elsewhere making them with the Paccar name on them?

 

PACCAR teamed up with either DAF or MAN from Europe, can't remember which, for their own powerplant, either of which are well respected firms with sizable volumes of sales around the world.

There is just so much engineering required to stuff multiple engines into each truck maker's chassis, it isn't worth it to the truck manufacturer to do all that work multiple times, so you get the house brand, and maybe a Cummins option, and that's it.

As noted, Cat didn't want to continue on highway in the US/Canada as the invetsment didn't look to have a pay-off within the time period that was desired. Cat will be selling 15 litre engines to Navistar, but not until next year at the earliest, and they will be the Maxxforce 15, as noted by the other poster. The trade press suggests that Navistar will be responsible for the emissions side, Cat just will build the basics and pass it over.

The European Union is approximately the same size as NAFTA, people count wise, with similar emissions regs challenging transportation firms. They have been using SCR for a few years, the technology is not new as we start using it now.

I agree that holding on for a year to see what bugs emerge in our North American interpretations of this technology would make good business sence.

 

I wonder if you can go to CAT for parts and service or you will need to go back to Navistar for their new engine?

 

A few questions:What does it cost to work on a Cat versus a Cummins dollar wise? Does a Cat really outlast a Cummins mileagewise and does a driver drive a Cat equipped rig the same as he would one with a Cummins or Detroit?

 

A friend of mine rebuilt his Cummins last year and spent just under $10,000. One of my CAT's was rebuilt a few years ago and the final bill was just over $18,000. I checked with my local CAT dealer last year to see what it would cost to do a rebuild on another truck and he gave me a figure of between $10,000-18,000. I think that Cummins is still the least expensive to rebuild with Detroit just a little more. CAT will usually cost more to rebuild. Parts is the main cost difference. To give you an idea of the difference in costs, I bought a turbo for one of the CAT's a couple of years ago and paid about $1,500. A Detroit or Cummins could have been replaced for about half or a little over half that amount. At least that is what my parts guy told me.

I have over 965,000 on one and have never had a rebuild. In fact, I have never even had to replace the bearings. I am hoping to get over a million on it before having to rebuild it. The other one was rebuilt at around 900,000 miles. I have spoken with a few who have gotten around 1.3 million miles on their CAT's. Several years ago I had an opportunity to speak with my local Detroit dealer about rebuilding a Detroit engine that I owned at the time. He told me the average rebuild time for Detroit was 750,000 miles. I have owned Detroits and have had good service from them, other than the leaks. I have never had a leak problem with CAT.

Since I have purchased my first CAT, I prefer them to anything else. It does cost more to replace parts but you don't seem to need to work on them as often. I have spoken with others who have had the same experience. If you buy CAT filters you will pay a little more for them than the generics, but I think they are better made. It could be psychological, but with the miles that I have put on my engines something is working and filters are cheaper than a rebuild. If you break it down you probably spend about the same on any of them in the long term. Parts are less on Cummins and Detroit, but seem to require more maintenance or repairs than CAT. However, if a CAT breaks it seems to cost more to have repairs made. CAT engines are also a little heavier than either of the other two engines.

I have never owned a Cummins so I can't help you with any direct experience with them. I find that my CAT has more torque than the Detroit's that I have owned. I seem to be able to shift a little sooner with the CAT than Detroit.

Personally, I think CAT is better made, other than some of the ascert engines that they made. Some people even like them. I have another friend who had his acert rebuilt last year and he is getting over 6 mpg with his 379 Pete. He loves it.

I have friends who think that their Detroit or Cummins is better than CAT. However, I have never gotten as many miles on a Detroit as I have with these CAT engines.