Fozzy...looks like your son leaves tomorrow for Iraq. I wish him a safe deployment and thank him from all of us for his service.

 

He is going on advance party with a few others from his group.. We just got home from Ft Campbell last night after a visit and to pick up all of his worldly goods..

 

Fozzy,

Thank you, and your son. My entire family thanks you.

 

I almost wan't to agree with you Fozzy-- But if its within a set of rules or laws, in which even the puppeteer follows. then it would be free will..
I have used this anolagy befor. Lets say Adam and Eve, "which I know you dont agree with but it is for the sake of argument" anyway adam and eve-- Having the law but not knowing it, cannot be held accountable, God knowing the outcome of them, but wishing for the best.. So they adam and eve faulter and sin. and as life goes on and on. we find God upset and wishing He would have never mad man. This is around the flood. God was upset --and wished He would have never made man??? Because their thought where continualy evil, -- not on Him. He is allowing man to make the freewill choice. and He being God also made a freewill choice and showed Himself to man again by the flood..It sounds drastic--but we as parents are we any less in some instances?Maybe--

Forgive me I am thinking this while typing it, I understand it, but it is hard to put in words.

I believe Geoman said the above

If God outsteps time, then He can see into the futur of time. He would know what we choose, just wishes we choose the other . And makes and takes every opertunity, for us to choose that which is best. If we do not that is our choice. That is free-will.. The only thing that is hard for me to grasp is why all the hoopla? Is it because those laws which govern the univers are those same laws which govern our hearts. A balance of good and evil? a posotive and a negative. a choice of free-will? Solomon in all his study's said the below in my signature.

Ecclesiastes 7:15-18
15 I have seen everything in my days of vanity: There is a just man who perishes in his righteousness, And there is a wicked man who prolongs life in his wickedness.
16 Do not be overly righteous,
Nor be overly wise:
Why should you destroy yourself?
17 Do not be overly wicked,
Nor be foolish:
Why should you die before your time?
18 It is good that you grasp this,
And also not remove your hand from the other; For he who fears God will escape them all!!!

Could this be something to grasp? Could ying and yang be something the chiness have understood..?

I don't see Evil as Sin, I see Evil as another part of God, and it is something that Glorifies Him, like I have stated on many threads. We all have it in us, Romans says the Law of Sin and Death are written on our hearts. and the New Covenant is just about the same, without all the ristrictions, for it is the Law of Love. between the 2 we have still the same choice to believe or not. That part of the Law has not changed and it has been there since the beginning, that is why I say that God cannot deny himself..

Let me ramble and maybe just maybe I will put myself in a corner, and Golf Hobo will come to save the day, and set me straight :lol:
I need a good debate and teaching, and so far He considering the subject seems to be the only one who understands what I am saying. other than Redeemed who no longer comes here!

I am not saying I am right, It is just the way I think. and I have been doing alot of thinking latley..

Fozzy you said. that god is mans worse creation..
But you kinda are like a diest right?? Therfor doesn't a diest believ in a creator, or like the hindu's they believed in a creator.. My question -- is that your creation of a diety?

I understand exactly what you are saying, and can sympothize with it, and in some ways agree with it. That is funny to me.. Becuase when I first came here, I was hellfire and brimstone.. But you and some others made me think, and the more I searched the scriptures of the Word of God, the more I think I understand Him. tho this is My Opinion. and if anything it strienghtened my faith in Him. But I still have a lot to learn, for when I think I have reached a little understanding, I find out I have learned nothing.
But the subject at hand has always stayed with me. I see no way around it!

I stated earlier that I get mad at God.. Let me xplain-- I get mad for letting me have the free will to choose! I don't want to choose, though I know what I choose, I still would rather not.. I get mad for things that I have chossen for myself, which in turn affects those around me. Why does this have to be soo? Why cant God who is all, fix that which is broken? Maybe I am not the one who needs to be in this discussion, I just miss it! I have learned soo much from all of y'all, and yes including you..

My thoughts and prayers go out to your son!

Slimland

 

Slim...I have been on the science/pragmatic/agnostic side for most of my life so these philosophical questions you raise open that other side and make me think as well. It's all good in the path I am not walking down

Here's a question: How can we know "good" without "evil" to compare it against. Going further...can God be infinitely good without something infinitely evil to contrast with? Or could God not create something as infinitely evil as He is good? Dang, here I go again....<tilt>...
That is the yin/yang part that has bounced arond inside my head for a while.

An example I once read on free will is that if you give your daughter $10 and then tell her what she can and can't buy with it....did you really give it to her in the first place? That is an analogy of God and free will....if he is back there pulling on our marionette strings...then we are really not free and God is merely forcing His will on us. Not at all what He intended for us.

I think we are bound by two basic laws during our time on this side of the curtain and God has chosen not to step in and control those (unless one accepts miracles). The first are natural laws (physics-nature etc) which produce famines, diseases, tsunamis etc and the good along with the bad suffer. The second is the excercise of free will and that can cause bad things to happen to good people along with good things happening to bad people.

 

My answer on this is My Opinion--

Comparing Good with Evil..

Good being to acknolege and believe in God, Evil the Temtation to do the opposit. The Sin is the fall to Temtation..
So Evil-- is not necessary-well evil.. but it is the knowlege of choice. :? Tilting with you :lol:

God being infinitly good,, this one IMOP is easy-- Good again is to Acknolege God, so God Acknoleges Himself. And has the Ability to not acknolege Himself, Jesus was Temted but without Sin. I think Sin is to go against Gods Word, the temtation is there. Sin is the Unbelief or to go against. IMOP why would God not believe in Himself. But He has the choice also. Otherwise He wouldn't have been temted by Lucifer. Thus He could creat Evil-- A choice a Law--But without Sin.. Don't mix Sin ie "Unbelief" with Evil ie-- a choice to believe or not.. if we where to look at it in this percspective..
It is kinda like creation going against itself.. We have the choice to go against creation, where as no other being does.. They follow the Law to the letter. We and Angels have the choice to believe or not..

But if that daughter buys what she will, without her dads aproval, that is free-will. Whether or not she listen's to dad.. See.. Will there be consiquence? Yep probably, but she can do it..
Just like your last statment-- Laws of Nature-- a positive and a negative-- a good and a evil. the fruit is the outcome of the choice.

I am not saying I understand it either, but this is as close as I came too..

Slimland

 

One more thing I forgot, Trukrswyfe thankyou for your prayers..!

 

Fairy tale!!!!

More thoughts!!!

I will leave it at that. I do not want to offend the religious nuts here.

Sorry all

 

Fairy tale!! I take no offense, you have every right to express your view.

 

AMEN!!