And vice versa!

 

When you were born, and your mother held you close and caressed your tiny face, chances are you SMILED! Most babies do. A smile is triggered by a feeling in the brain. Yet, as a child, you had not yet stubbed your toe, or been spanked for being bad. You responded with a smile to a soothing touch on your skin, without having known the pain of a slap yet.

Not everything in life is a conditioned response or a learned behaviour. We are born with pre-programmed sensory receptors in the brain. The "recognition" of pleasure is there before the experience is.

A child born in Siberia, who has never known HEAT, will still feel the COLD for the same reasons.

For the record, according to the Bible and standard Christian belief.... God did not CREATE evil. The Garden of Eden was a paradise, and that was what God says he intended for his creation. That "would" have been a life of knowing only joy and goodness.... without evil to compare it to. And, according to the Bible, Adam and Eve WERE having a great time there, AND were cognizant of how "good" life was for them.

 

Slimland said:


Yes, Slim.... you've done it again! :wink:

Don't confuse the principle of yin and yang with what your religion teaches you about God. The theory of opposite forces being part of the whole is akin to the religious belief of Good and Evil, i.e: God and Satan.... but Evil is NOT just another part of God. In fact, there can BE no Evil IN God, according to the Bible.

Evil, by itself does NOT glorify God. He is glorified ONLY in that he has the power to conquer Evil. And further by the fact that WE, relying on his power, can conquer evil by NOT sinning.

However, in the beginning God created all things GOOD, and he was pleased. And ALL things created by him DID glorify him. He had no need to be glorified by the conquest of evil or the forgiveness of sin.

Just as the example of the baby in my last post, God's creation was intended to love him and enjoy the goodness he created WITHOUT EVER KNOWING the alternative. Hate to disagree with T/F, but it absolutely IS possible to know and enjoy good health without knowing sickness, joy without knowing sorrow, etc.

I'm not sure if any of that helps you, but you asked.

 

Maybe I did it on purpose. Just too lure you in! :lol: :lol:

Well as for the ying and yang thing, I dunno, it was just my understanding and lack of knowledge, and using what little I know of it, without all the research available at my fingertips..

As for God creating Evil, I have to disagree with you Hobo..

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Every thing was created by God therfor Evil was created by God, I think you are confusing Sin, with Evil..But that is My opinion..

Where does it say this,, All I have ever seen is God cannot Sin, which is to deny Him.. For Sin is unbelief, and sins are the fruit of it..

In order for us to deny Him, we first have to know that there is the choice.. and that is what Adam and Eve where givven.. The choice to eat or not.. The choice to believe in what God said or not.. therfor givving them the knowlege of good and evil..

on another note: it is good to talk to you again!

Slimland

 

 

Purely for the sake of discussion, Jeep....

This is a common misconception of the unbeliever. All WE know is based on "creation" or beginnings and endings (even the theory of evolution.) We have ordered our lives, and the history of the World, into segments of TIME, which is BASED on cycles of the sun and moon.... which are simply PARTS of the Universe..... in fact, only our little corner of it!

God did not need someone to "create" him. He has always existed. Sure, everything in the Universe had to have a point of origin, but God is outside of, or above, the Universe, (and as I've discussed with Slimland,) NOT subject to the physical laws OF the universe.

He said (or someone quoted him as saying,) "I am the Alpha and the Omega" Actually, if he said that, it was only for OUR benefit.... because we need to think in those terms. [Does anyone actually believe God was limited to speaking Greek?] In actuality, God claims to be PRE Alpha, and POST Omega. He claims to be "the great I AM," because he has always existed. On HIS plane.... there was no need to be "created" by someone more superiour. This is perhaps, the hardest idea for Man to get his head around.

MAN wrote, in the Bible.... "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." By definition.... we are limiting the concept of God to HAVING a "beginning," because WE think in those terms. It would have been more accurate to have said.... "There has always BEEN the Word, and ....."

Now, you may find that "unbelievable," because like all of us, your brain is conditioned with the concept of time.... but that is the core of the Creationists belief. That God has no beginning nor end, and that HE is the creator of all we know.

BTW.... I wasn't saying YOU were an unbeliever. I was addressing the concept you posted, and the agument between those who do and do NOT believe in Creationism.

 

Actually, Fozzy.... I think you misunderstand what T/F is saying. Just because "God" KNOWS what we will choose, does not mean he has made the choice FOR us. Like T/F said, WE don't know what we will choose, and we are free to make the choice, right or wrong. God COULD know what that choice will be, without making it FOR us.

So our lives are not Predetermined nor Preprogrammed, God just knows what our choices will be. It's like this.....

Let's say I am your father (yikes!) and I offer to buy you a brand new car. I ask you to choose between a red Porche and a blue Lamborghini. I tell you to take your time and decide, consider all the options, etc....

Perhaps, I know which would be BEST for you..... but I'll let you choose whichever you want. After 3 or 4 days, you come to me and say you've made your choice. I open the garage door, and it just so happens that the one you chose is the one I bought for you. Why? Because I knew which one you would choose. I didn't FORCE you to choose it.... but I don't have to take it back and exchange it, because it WAS the one you were going to choose, of your own free will.

I didn't predetermine it, or make you choose it.... I just knew your heart and mind.

Personally, where "I" have a problem with the free will thing, is like someone else said..... What good is free will, if the choice is between heaven and hell? God seems to think, (or the religions tell us) that we would all necessarily WANT to spend eternity in Heaven worshipping HIM. Why can't there be a choice between a heaven WITH God.... and a heaven WITHOUT him??

If we WANT to love him and spend eternity WITH him.... fine! If we'd rather have the 72 virgins and a case of beer?? Why should we have to go to HELL for that?

 

Hobo said

Hobo let me see if I can esplain "as Ricky says" :lol:

I am not saying God is half good and half evil.. I am saying that Evil is temtation, to go against Gods Word.. Paul said that he would have never known that coveting was a sin, untill the law said thou shall not covet.. Therfor temtation took the opertunity to entice, for we naturaly go against the don't do thats.. and when we do, it becomes sin. Even Jesus was tempted, God himself was Tempted, Thus the temptation is not bad, but the fall into it is..

What I am getting at, and I hope I make this understandable, because I just don't have the vocabulary and nack at writing like you do.. But anyway is God created evil, and that evil "Temtation"is found in the Law.
Lucifer didn't creat evil, matter of fact he fell to it.. it is the choice to accept or go against Gods command. If we accept Gods Word, then we are doing good, if we don't accept Gods Word we sin. But the Law is holy just and good. and without it we would not know the diffrence. and once we know, we are givven the choice, and then the law flows through us, and kills us "spiritualy" becuase we cannot stand up to Gods law.

So Evil IMOP glorifies God, for it shows us what we are, and our need for Him. For through Him we live under a new law, for the old was fulfilled in Christ. But the main subject of the Old, is still held up in the new. To believe or not..

This I can kinda agree on, but if we where never intended to know evil, then wouldn't have God, not said "don't eat of the fruit of the Tree" I realy don't think the tree was anything but that a tree, the matter was the command from God. If He had never said anything, then they would've known no diffrent and probly would have still been just like children and relying on God.. But maybe He wanted them to grow up, thus givving the command, and let them choose to follow or not.

God does not have Sin, but He does have the knowleg of good and evil. He just won't fall into temptation, thus He cannot Sin. Becuase Sin is to go against Gods Word to deny God, and He wouldn't Go against Himself nor deny Himself.

We were created without Sin, but we had the choice to go against or with. We are not God, so we can go against Him. He cannot go against Himself. That is the diffrence, Humans and Angels, have the choice and the ability.. And I am sure God does too, But what would happen if God denied Himself?

Thanks Hobo interesting as always!

Slimland

 

 

After being on my own authority for a couple of weeks - I strongly believe the only way to survive this is to trust in God.

Fuel, insurance, truck repairs, food, clothing - all going up but the truck rates are going down.

I pray for us all.