Every where you look in our government it is a "majority rules" system. Whether it be the local town council deciding the issue, the Senate deciding an issue or the Supreme court deciding a case.

If that where true, then there would still be slaves and women would still be property. There darn sure would be no blacks in southern colleges and there would be Jim Crow laws to keep them from voting and owning property.

The word "gay" is not referred to in the Constitution, just the same as blacks were not referred to and women's right to vote is not referred to in the original Amendments. It wasn't the issue then that it is now.

The word "Baptism" is there either,,, is that also illegal in your eyes? I don't remember the word pickles being in their either.. I guess I better get them out of the house!

I certainly don't know enough about you to call you "ignorant". I have my beliefs and opinions, as you have yours and we are never going to change each other's mind.

I have been and still am ignorant of many things, ignorant is not derogatory unless you chose to remain that way.


We could go on for days, but I really feel as though it would go nowhere, but downhill. I offer you a truce and whether or not you accept it is up to you. I, for one, feel bad for the OP as we all have highjacked his post. I suppose it was to be expected given the flavor of the topic and a lot of the info here does circle around the original topic.

The topic is about homosexual marriage, it's not off topic to talk about why it shouldn't be based on the articles that limit the governments power.


Although, I will probably continue to monitor this thread because curiousity is our nature, I will try my best to refrain from posting because I feel that most people understand where I stand and there is no sense in me typing the same things over and over again. Thanks to all for stimulating conversation, I think I even learned a few things.

Keep reading and keep learning, the point I will continue to make is that every American has the right to like or dislike whatever the choose to. They have the right to live their lives as they see fit. Other American have all those same rights and no one should be able to restrict their liberties.

 

When do you feel pressed to become gay? Do you feel forced to do anything you see in public that you don't already do (smoke, drink, speeding, etc)? Are you that gullible?

Again, since you're holding the foundation, how could the country be going down the drain? Your words, remember.

 

You 2 Guys are trying to argue an immoral argue. Trying to twist words to your profit. The others on this board know what I have said and know it to be truth. I'm sorry your minds are so darkend to the FACTS, that you still cannot face them. I have done all I could, so I leave this too some one else.




You can Twist perception, Reality won't budge you can raise objection I will be the judge and the jury. I'll give it due reflection, watching from the fence. Give the jury direction based on the evedince.

 

Ok, shoot me, curiousity killed the cat... There were just a couple of things that I apparently left "open" so I will clear them up and then I'm done, I promise.

My personal belief is that majority rules laws would have protected blacks and women by now regardless. Your opinion is that it would not, fine. Neither of us know for "darn sure" that either of us would be correct. There is just no way of knowing that to be a fact. Mere opinion, nothing more.

I wasn't saying that gay, baptist or even pickles for that matter are illegal nor am I saying they should be. I was merely stating that 10 articles cannot possible address every single issue that will ever come up. I also believe that "baptism" falls under freedom of religion so, no it is not illegal in my eyes. I will tell you one thing, if a law is passed that says it is illegal to own pickles, yes you had better get them out of your house! I thought that was a very bad analogy, but again, this is my "opinion".

I understand that ignorance is not a bad thing. I, too, am ignorant of many things. I've actually tried to work a sewing machine a couple of times, but I just don't "get" the darn thing therefore I'm "ignorant" to it. You had stated that I know nothing about history or the Constitution and I believe that was an attempted insult. Maybe I'm wrong?

What started all of this was that someone stated that their state voted in a law that banned gay marriage. I replied that we have the same law here in Ohio. It doesn't make it illegal to be gay or anything of the sort, it states that two people cannot be recognized as "legally married" in the state of Ohio. I might agree with you that I don't know that it is necessary to have such a law on the books, but the fact is it's there. It has been heavily challenged and so far it has not been found to be unconstitutional. Maybe it will be in 50 years, honestly I don't know. I know that the Constitution guarantees the same basic rights to all races, genders and creeds. I do not know that it guarantees anything based upon sexual orientation or lifestyle. I guess I am ignorant to that. I also believe that it is morally wrong, but I also know that this law does not affect me one bit. Now, if the pass a law stating that white, heterosexual males cannot marry redheads then I would definitely be affected! I do believe in civil rights, but I am not an activist for it to any extreme extent. That's just me, but so far I haven't had the need to be. If you choose to be, that's fine, but there's no reason to believe that others are wrong because they don't feel the same way as you do.

 

You 2 Guys are trying to argue an immoral argue. Trying to twist words to your profit.

IMHO it beats trying to rule other citizens with your opinions.


The others on this board know what I have said and know it to be truth.

And they are also entitled to their opinions as you are... why do you feel that others should not be allowed theirs?

I'm sorry your minds are so darkend to the FACTS, that you still cannot face them. I have done all I could, so I leave this too some one else.

It is not those who reject the idea of some sort of American Theocracy who are living in the dark. Just as the Taliban and the other extremist religions, they are fighting to return to the dark ages.

I think you are just ejecting prematurely.. But if you feel that your craft will no longer fly...when all else fails...




You can Twist perception, Reality won't budge you can raise objection I will be the judge and the jury. I'll give it due reflection, watching from the fence. Give the jury direction based on the evedince.[/quote]

 

You have every right to think that!
I have proven my point, and the defense rest!

 

My personal belief is that majority rules laws would have protected blacks and women by now regardless. Your opinion is that it would not, fine. Neither of us know for "darn sure" that either of us would be correct. There is just no way of knowing that to be a fact. Mere opinion, nothing more.

Really? until the 1960's in some states, blacks could not vote and they couldn't attend the colleges of their choice. Some of the States even added the confederate battle flag as full blown threat to them and as a sign they they would not allow the federal government to dictate how to treat "their" blacks. Please spare me the "things will work out somehow" blather. Opinons are based a lot on experience and history of anything and everything. Sometimes the hard core knotheads have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the reality that just because you are in the majority, you cannot rule others.


I wasn't saying that gay, baptist or even pickles for that matter are illegal nor am I saying they should be. I was merely stating that 10 articles cannot possible address every single issue that will ever come up.

Sure they can. Again however for some knotheads, bigots and elitists, they have to have things clarified. When the bill of rights says things, it includes all Americans regardless of who they chose to have sex with.

I also believe that "baptism" falls under freedom of religion so, no it is not illegal in my eyes. I will tell you one thing, if a law is passed that says it is illegal to own pickles, yes you had better get them out of your house! I thought that was a very bad analogy, but again, this is my "opinion".

To hear some tell it, unless everyone's child is forced to be lead in a state sanctioned prayer, they will end up morally bankrupt. So if the majority religion (Catholics) demands that majority rules, then Baptism could be outlawed and immoral and contrary to their will.

I understand that ignorance is not a bad thing. I, too, am ignorant of many things. I've actually tried to work a sewing machine a couple of times, but I just don't "get" the darn thing therefore I'm "ignorant" to it.

Not the same issue nor does this mean the same thing. You are now no longer ignorant of sewing. You may be unskilled in it, but ignorance is now not a valid decription.

You had stated that I know nothing about history or the Constitution and I believe that was an attempted insult. Maybe I'm wrong?

Only an insult if you decided it was. If you can rationalize the majority once again allowing the government to interject themselves into other citizens private lives, then it wasnt too far off.

What started all of this was that someone stated that their state voted in a law that banned gay marriage. I replied that we have the same law here in Ohio. It doesn't make it illegal to be gay or anything of the sort, it states that two people cannot be recognized as "legally married" in the state of Ohio.

And not too long ago in this country , it was illegal for blacks, Jews and mixed races to marry. Again, the country (through the supreme court) decided that this was none of the government's business and two adult homosexuals who wish to have the same LEGAL rights that other married couples enjoy should be allowed too. This falls under the equal protection under the law statues.

I might agree with you that I don't know that it is necessary to have such a law on the books, but the fact is it's there. It has been heavily challenged and so far it has not been found to be unconstitutional.

And for most people its a knee jerk reaction to the question. Again the homosexuals have done little to nothing when compared to the "run o the mill" heterosexual to add to the rate of decline of the American society.

Maybe it will be in 50 years, honestly I don't know. I know that the Constitution guarantees the same basic rights to all races, genders and creeds. I do not know that it guarantees anything based upon sexual orientation or lifestyle.

sure it does, its called liberty and the right to privacy.

I guess I am ignorant to that. I also believe that it is morally wrong, but I also know that this law does not affect me one bit. Now, if the pass a law stating that white, heterosexual males cannot marry redheads then I would definitely be affected!

you have the right not to marry or not marry whomever you choose. Homosexuals do not have this right. It's perfectly fine for heterosexuals to marry or not. Even if these clown decide NOT to get married, there are quite a few states that consider them married! It's legal for heterosexuals to marry children in this country! So pedophilia is legal here, but two adults who are the same gender will make someone nervous? :roll: There needs to be legal protection for the common law spouse of the homosexual to protect themselves from the government and allow them legal next of kin rights.


I do believe in civil rights, but I am not an activist for it to any extreme extent. That's just me, but so far I haven't had the need to be. If you choose to be, that's fine, but there's no reason to believe that others are wrong because they don't feel the same way as you do.

Wanting others to have the same rights as other Americans is not extreme. picking and choosing who can get married and who is "moral" based on one religion's text is the extremes.

 

I turned over the paper I did the survey on, and someone had written this, "what about people who are in prison? do they have the right to be gay, since they can't have normal sex with women?" I don't know why he didn't ask me. I am glad he didn't because I don't know an answer for that. What do you think?

Oh, and fozzy, what exactly did you mean by that post to me?

 

what about people who are in prison? do they have the right to be gay, since they can't have normal sex with women?" I don't know why he didn't ask me. I am glad he didn't because I don't know an answer for that. What do you think?

To be sure, there is gay sex in prison. the majority of the sex in prison has little to do with sex and more to do with power and control. Sex is used as a weapon to keep other inmates under control by those who are running the show.



Oh, and fozzy, what exactly did you mean by that post to me?

What do you think I meant in the post to you? here's a hint: Slurs are slurs regardless of what group you are using them against and are (or should be) against the posting guidelines.

 

I wasn't being prejudice against the gay people. No discrimination there fozzy!