Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy

I didn't read every page but I want to commend you all for having an excellent discussion and keeping it civil (at least what I saw). That is awesome.

Now...the "two towers" comment caught my attention. I had never heard that before. It could be true but I don't know if we should put so much stock in two buildings falling down in New York city in relation to biblical prophecy. You know what I mean? Again, great thread guys.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Uh, my dog ate my homework? :lol:

Ok, that won't work. So lets go back to your original question. I just finished reading the first several chapters of Zechariah, specifically the man and horses among the Myrtle Trees. So let me give you my initial thoughts. Please remember, my understanding of Old Testament is very limited.

Clearly it is a prophetic picture. My first thought took me to the horses in the Book of Revelation. However, there were four horses there.....White, Red, Black & Pale. Here you have three horses.....Red, Brown, and White. But in Ch 1 Vrs 10 it explains that the horses are "ones the Lord has sent to go throughout the earth." According to Revelation Ch 6 the White horse is the one of conquest and the Red horse is the one of war. I believe the same description applies here in Zechariah. I am unsure what the brown horse stands for in this vision.

The vision I believe describes the times and circumstances just before God's intervention on behalf of his chosen. In Zechariah's time this was Israel suffering under oppression from an occuping army. But this should also foretell of the times before the Tribulation and Christ's return. The horses were sent out over all the earth and found the earth "at rest and in peace." (Zech Ch1 Vrs 11). Now compare the description of rest and peace with this description .....

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3

"Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying "Peace and saftey," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

Very similar! Here you have Paul describing a scene very similar to what Zechariah saw in his vision. But Paul's description is about the Second Coming.

Now what is very interesting is verses 12 & 13. The angel of the Lord ask God how much longer will He withhold mercy from Jerusalem and the towns of Judah which you have been angry with these 70 years? Whoa! This passage implies that the 70 years of punishment against Israel is up! There is no doubt here that this vision speaks directly to the end times and Christ's Second Coming. Daniel 9:24 refers to this time of finishing transgressions. Daniel uses seventy sevens to describe the time. Now a little stretch here I know but is the time period in Verses 12-14 of Zechariah not the same time period in Daniel 9:24? I believe it is. In Daniel 9:2 he explains that he understood the desolation of Jerusalem would last 70 years. He prayed and then was given the answer of how long it would take.

To tie it in are verses 14-17 where the Lord gave the word that Judah will be returned with mercy and His house rebuilt. God expresses his anger at the other nations because they took advantage of the situation and instead of just punishing Israel they tried to wipe them out completely. Very much the same situation today. Israel surrounded by enemies bent on her destruction as a people. Iran and Hamas come first to mind.

So in short, I believe that Zechariah is describing the time just before the Tribulation and Christ return.

Ok, now back to you.

Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy

I didn't read every page but I want to commend you all for having an excellent discussion and keeping it civil (at least what I saw). That is awesome.

Now...the "two towers" comment caught my attention. I had never heard that before. It could be true but I don't know if we should put so much stock in two buildings falling down in New York city in relation to biblical prophecy. You know what I mean? Again, great thread guys.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

To answer your question about the 4 horsemen....Yes and No.

Clearly all of the signs of what the horsemen stand for have been witnessed.

Conquest
War
Famine
Death

But like in the day of Zechariah I believe that this vision of prophecy has a dual meaning. I believe it describes the times of the last days as they relate to the days from Jesus assention after the crucifixion until His return at the Second Coming. So in that sense the horsemen have been released. Read 1 John 2:18 & 19. It describes anti-christ's (plural) that have already gone out. I believe that these forerunners to the man described in 2 Thessalonians Ch 2 (the man of lawlessness) who help prepare the way (so to speak) and thereby spead the plagues described by the horsemen.

However, I believe that the vision of the horsemen describe the time when the anti-christ & false prophet will take over. The white horse in Ch6 of Revelation I believe describes the rise to power of the anti-christ. Satan seeks to be above God and would try to copy God in an effort to decive many. Because Christ is to return on a white horse (Rev Ch19 Vs 11) satan will copy that scene to use it for the arrival of his own anti-christ's coming. The following horses are the effects the anti-christ will have on the world. Again, we have already seen those effects during the last 2000 years. But when the anti-christ comes to power the wars, famines, and deaths will be magnified beyond human comprehension.

I understand what you mean by feeling unworthy. I have been dealing with similar feelings for a while. But it's like my doctor told me, if we were worthy we would not need Christ. And God knows it so I just need to realize it and quit trying to be something I am not.....perfect.

A question for you. What do you make of the seven churches listed in the book of Revelation? I have heard many try to make comparisons to actual physical churches, other denominations, and even specific preachers. However, I think it is something different. I believe it describes the stages or places a believer actually walks through or could walk through if he is not following the narrow path. What do you think?

Originally Posted by Redeemed

The stages of the church system would also seem to make sense. The book you talk about does not surprise me. I have actually seen churches name themselves the Philidelphia church in belief that it marks them as the church in the book of Revelation. It gives me chills to think about it. I would not want to presuppose myself as that church unless I were absolutely sure I was right. Talk about making a proud statement!

Those preachers who preach only for the love of money will be found out. If not in this life they will when they approach God. If there is anything good that comes out of what they do it is only because its in God's plan. I think these will be some of those that try and say to God "look at all those souls who received the message of the Gospel from my efforts." God knowing their heart will tell them He never knew them. Ironic that when they stand before God they may actually see someone saved because of the Gospel message they gave out......but not because their heart was right but because they sought after money.

Next subject. Let me know some of your thoughts on the mark of the beast. I believe the groundwork is in place now for its implementation.