i asked the question and also stated i was open minded and yes we do need proof and yes you very adept at twisting peoples words whom have a logical arguement against your own and at the very least to discredit mine.
i dont believe and i dont unbelieve im waiting for some good evidence before i change my view if you have it then show it, id like that very much
what questions would you like me to ask instead of withholding them enlightenme

 

ken-o,

I am sorry if you think I was twisting your words and also if you think I am not taking your question seriously because I am. However, please understand that the question you ask has been around for ages and used by those who want to discredit believers or change minds to the idea of no God. In my opinion your responses in this thread seem to put you in that category.

Logically you can not prove God exists with any measure of scientific accuracy. I can't give you a picture of God, put him in a cage, or show you a legal document that proves beyond all doubt that God exists. You can not see, smell, feel, taste or hear God. So in that respect not only do you have a logical argument against mine but using total logic I cede the argument to you......you win. So in no way is my intent to discredit your arguement.

But believers don't believe in God because of indisputable evidence or logic. It is an act of faith, or what I call leap of faith, to believe in any supreme being. Basically, it is someone who looks at everything around them and says that it could not have been created much less continue operating without flying apart without a higher power holding it all together. When others said what God provide them you brushed if off as a chemical reaction. To a believer God is responsible for that chemical reaction.

If you really want an answer to your question you will have to try and be open to anothers ideas. Having the conversation on this subject is like two people of totally different languages trying to communicate with one another. If you try to only use your language or what you know then very little communication will happen. If you are willing to step away from what you know and open up to other ideas then you might begin to understand the answers these posters have given you....and maybe get the answer to your original question.

Let me use this example with you about how a believer comes to believe in God. Going back to Chemistry class there is the Table of Periodic elements. In that table are all the natural elements known to science. Yet in that table are empty spots. According to my Chemistry professor these empty spots are for elements that based on our current knowledge exists, but have not yet been found or a method to find them has not been found. Now based on current knowledge we set aside spots in that table for elements that we do not know anything about.

That is very much how a believer looks at God. Based on what they have observed and know, along with a "leap of faith," have come to an acceptance or belief in God.

As I said earlier, the question you ask can not be answered. You want to know what question you should ask? Sorry, I can't tell you what question you should ask. The questions someone ask to come to an understanding about the existence of God are very personal and come from deep within. My questions won't necessarily be yours. However, I will tell you this......if your questions are only meant to make others look illogical then you have already received your answer.

But, if you are truly looking for an answer and open minded I will give you this advice. Go look up a book in the library called "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. If my memory is correct Lee was an atheist news reporter that set out on a personal quest to scientifically prove God did not exist. But in his investigations he not only changed his mind but became a believer himself. Maybe his story and evidence he lays out will help you start answering your questions.

Beyond that ken_o the only evidence I can give you is my own personal story. It is not fullproof scientific evidence. In fact it is far from it.

 

u say I win ok i win. You are right theirs no real way for you to win this argument but your perspective is duly noted.
I will not leap into anything whether its a fire, hole in the ground or a religion
I like your writing style its very eloquent and easy to read even with the horizontal scrolling.
I also viewed lees site http://www.leestrobel.com/bio.html
his interviews with anthony flew who decision was based on inter-grated complexity's. seemed odd to me when hes obviously close to the end .
lee himself has put out many books after books even with his wife, now his kids are putting out books.
I am open minded hey we may have been placed here by aliens you never know.
i will leave this thread for you to preach nice arguing with you though.
your feelings are once again duly noted.

 

Thank you for the compliment ken_o. I never thought of myself as a good writer...mainly because putting coherent thoughts to paper has always been difficult for me.

I admire you for following up and checking on Lee Strobel's website. Clearly you are someone looking for answers. I apologize for assuming you were just looking for a chance to discredit someone. I wish you well in your search for answers and hope you find them.

As far as aliens go, as a frequent listener to the "Coast to Coast AM" radio show with Art Bell and George Noory I have to wonder what role do aliens play in human civilization. Yes, I do believe there are extra-terrestrial life forms out there but I just don't know who or what they are and what is their purpose.

 

First off--Excellent response and post Redeemed, exspecialy with the trials that face you!

Ken-o--- Though this thread is for prophecy, your question does fit in! Exspecialy with you open minded! I ask you NOT to leave, but go back and read all the pages of this thread. Then you might have a better understanding of our subject and stance. Through prophecy IMOP there is proof of Gods Existence, and it testify's of Him. Even the scripture proclaims this "for the Spirit of prphecy's is the Testamony of Jesus Christ" You are more than welcome to this discussion, since it is a discussion you are looking for and not an argument. For the debates are done on another thread, and I can give you a link to those if you want that too. But I thank you for you Respect, of not arguing on this one. But again we do have a place for that too.

If you go back and read, our discussion just might answer some questions for you, if not we can try--But it is truly up to You and God. Redeemed can plant the seed, Chapp-CHapp can water it. But only God can give the increase!

Thankyou with all due respect

Slimland

 

Lets go back and get on subject! Redeemed what do you think of this?

 

You are right Slimland. Time to get back to prophecy.

On first reading of this passage I would agree with you and say that it could be a vision of what is happening in Iraq. Specifically with the term "Babylonia" used which is the area of Iraq.

The vision given to Zechariah was timely for his generation but as we have agreed on in discussion of chapter 1 it seems to have a second meaning for our time too. I am using the NIV study bible and even they in the forward to the book seem to allude to a meaning of Messianic as well as apocalyptic and eschatological views.

Honestly, I have not yet done a thorough reading of Zechariah but you have given me enough examples from chapter 1 and 5 to say I should.

Interesting that in verse 8 he makes the cover of the basket made of lead. I wonder if there is signifcance in that part of the vision?

I wonder if we could find a good Bible study on line that covers Zechariah that we could go over together.

In verse 11 it says that wickedness will be placed in Babylonia when the house is built for it. Could that be a reference to the coming anti-Christ when he finally secures his power and is revealed?

Slimland, I am going to read the entire book. It's only 14 chapters. I will give you some more thoughts tomorrow. What do you see it as?

 

Hey, whoever got the post stretched out...can you go back and edit it so it fits back in the screen?

Its not full scrolling left to right to read.

Thanks

 

From my understanding, we are here because God desired a relationship with us. When Adam walked in the garden, Adam and God were able to talk like we can talk to each other. God created Eve to be a helpmate for Adam.

Satan also known as Lucifer was I believe the highest ranking angel. He had a very high esteem of himself being so close to God. He did eventually think he could be greater than God. He was extremely jealous when God created Adam and Eve, and had a hatred unknown on this Earth for all humans.

He tempted Eve knowing it would be easier for him to get to her. She fell for the temptation, because he had 99.9% of the truth, and 0.01% lie. The lie was that we would not die, but become like God. Since that day the relationship between God and humans has been ripped apart. It was like a thick steel spiritual wall was put between us with no doors. The human race lost all the authority God had given us over the earth. Satan now has that authority, and alot of bad things have happened because of it.

Ever since, it has been God searching and trying to repair that relationship with us, which he did through his son Jesus. Jesus became that door through the spiritual wall. Jesus has given us back our authority to those who will believe in him. Even so, it has been so long that we still really don't know how to use that authority even when we do have it. We wonder at miracles done by God's people and wonder why God works through them but not us. Why God doesn't help this person or that.

We are here because God wants to know us personally, and have a relationship with us. We have just been cut off from him.

 

I know this was a question asked to someone else, but I can answer that question.

1) He gave me a peace of mind, and took away my depression
2) He took away the small shadows that were running along the floor boards - also known as imps or the smaller devils.
3) He has helped my husband find a job with a company that really suits him right now.
4) He has kept us out of financial trouble.
5) He has given me strength to live through out this day instead of wanting to sleep the entire day because of depression.
6) He has given me my life back, I would not be here if it were not for him.
7) Because of him I have a loving husband and three wonderful children eventhough I don't deserve them.

The stories behind all of these statements can be long. I went through alot of trials, and it wasen't until afterwards that I saw God's hand in every thing. I know both sides, and I know which side I want to be on and belong to.