Last but Not Least.. According to some and there reasoning, Maybe we should go to war with China, they seem as bad as Iraq! Even worse they do have weapons of Mass Distruction..



"When China awakes, she will shake the world"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

Cecil Rhodes, the businessman-imperialist of Africa, the creator of Rhodesia, suffered no flicker of doubt about who were the masters.

"To be born an Englishman," he mused, "Is to win first prize in the lottery of life."

It wasn't idle boasting. In the jingoistic triumphalism of the late 19th century, when waving the Union Jack was a simple pleasure, people sang: "Rule Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves" without any irony. It was a statement of fact.

A quarter of mankind lived under the British flag in the largest empire the world had ever known.

And many of those parts that weren't under Britain's rule - such as the U.S. - had been created by Britain.

British missionaries had opened up the Dark Continent almost unchallenged.

The British Army found it easier to invade troublesome nations - or most of them - than it does nowadays.

Britain was the workshop of the world, dominating science, manufacturing and trade.

To many Victorians, unquestioning of the ideology that underpinned much imperialism, British supremacy was a simple matter of racial supremacy - Europeans, and the English in particular, were fated to be the masters.

The truth is that we are masters of the world no more.

The global power shift from the West to the East is no longer just a matter of debate confined to learned journals and newspaper columns - it is a reality that is beginning to have a huge impact on our daily lives.

What would those Victorian masters of old have made of the fact that Chinese security men were on the streets of London this week, ordering our own police about and fighting running battles with British protesters while bewildered athletes carried the Olympic torch on its relay through the capital?

It was a brazen display of how confident China has become of its new place in the world, just as the British Government's failure to take a firm stand on Chinese abuses of human rights shows how craven we have become.

The dire warnings from the International Monetary Fund this week that the West now faces the largest financial shock since the Great Depression, while the Asian economies are still powering ahead, simply underlines our vulnerability in this new world order.

The desperately weakened American dollar appears to be on the verge of losing its global dominance, in the same way as sterling lost it a lifetime ago.

The credit crunch has brought home to all of us in Britain how over-reliant our country has become on financial services. Meanwhile, the loss of our manufacturing industries to Asia continues unabated.

Last month, an Indian company, Tata, bought up what was once the cream of British manufacturing - Jaguar and Land Rover.

A couple of years ago, Nanjing Automotive, a Chinese company, snapped up MG Rover.

Just as the 19th century was the British century, and the 20th century was the American century, the 21st century is the Asian century.

But the handover of global power from the UK to the U.S. was trivial compared to what is happening now.

The U.S. was Britain's offspring, based on the same values and the same language.
It, too, was an Anglo-Saxon country, and passing the baton across the Atlantic ensured the continuation of the Anglo-Saxon world order, based on democracy, free trade and a belief in human rights, upheld through international institutions that both powers supported.

But the world order we have grown used to - and comfortable with - over the last century is coming to an end.

Napoleon III compared China to a sleeping giant and warned: "When China awakes, she will shake the world."

After a long hibernation, China, and her 1.3 billion people - twice the population of the U.S. and EU combined - is awaking almost overnight.

And not just China. The world's second most populous country, India, is industrialising at a historically unprecedented pace.

Their economies are growing on a long-term basis about four times the speed of the UK's and that of the United States. Goldman Sachs, the bank, recently predicted that by 2050, China and India would have overtaken the U.S. to be the world's first and second biggest economies.

We have long heard about the benefits this brings, in terms of plentiful cheap goods from toys to TVs, and huge opportunities for Western companies to sell their wares in these booming markets.

But there are also downsides, which are becoming more apparent. Unskilled workers in the West have become unsettled by the threat to their jobs as production moves East.

The most vulnerable Western workers have found their wages stagnate as they struggle to compete in an increasingly global market place.

And competition for raw materials is pitting East against West.

The economic explosion of China, and to a lesser extent India, has given them an almost overpowering hunger for raw materials with which to build their factories, homes and cars.

Wherever you turn, the rise of Asia is making its impact felt on our existence.

Every time you complain about the price of petrol being over £1 a litre, it is to the Far East you have to look to find the culprits.

here are even reports that manholes in Britain have been disappearing to feed the monstrous appetite for scrap steel in the other side of the world.

China is spending 35 times as much on crude oil as it did eight years ago, and 23 times as much on copper.

As it builds gleaming skyscrapers on its fields, China alone consumes half the world's cement and a third of its steel.

What is happening is so extraordinary that economists have had to invent a new word for it - this is not an economic cycle, but a supercycle, a shift in the world economy of historic proportions.

When demand increases and supply stands still, prices shoot up. Iron, wheat and oil are all at record prices, despite slackening demand in the faltering Western economies.

The cost of living in Britain is now rising faster than wages, making the British on average poorer year on year.

Asia's expansion means that its influence is starting to be felt more directly around the world.

Asian countries are not just buying up foreign raw materials, but as their companies try to become global leaders, they are buying up Western companies.

It is not just Land Rover, Jaguar and MG Rover. The Malaysian company Proton owns Lotus. Indian company Tata owns Corus, once British Steel, as well as Tetley Tea.

The hunger for raw materials is also making China lose its shyness and venture out into the world. Like Germany and Russia, China has traditionally been a land empire, focusing its expansionist energies on countries it had borders with, and it eschewed the world-conquering exploits of Europe's sea-faring maritime nations.

Europeans have, for half a millennium, been unchallenged as the global colonisers, but last month the respected Economist magazine dubbed the Chinese "The New Colonists".

While the Congo in central Africa was once over-run by Belgians, it is now the Chinese that can be found wondering around its mining belts.

In Lubumbashi, the capital of the Congo's copper-rich region Katanga, the Economist reported "a sudden Chinese invasion".

Troubled Angola recently shunned Western financial aid because of the amount of Chinese money pouring into it, in return for commodities.

From Kazakhstan to Indonesia to Latin America, Chinese firms are gobbling up oil, gas, coal and metals.

Canadian authorities were recently alarmed to find the Chinese interested in exploring the Arctic Ocean, in a bid to get a share of the minerals beneath the thawing icecap.

In eastern Siberia, Russians worry that China is by default taking over their empty land.

The West has long seen Africa as its backyard, but Western diplomats now worry that not just Africa, but South America, too, is being lost to China.

And Western governments are concerned that the rules of the game are changing. Most worryingly, as China's brutal suppression of the once independent Tibet shows, this is not a superpower that respects Western standards on human rights.

From Darfur to Myanmar, China is cuddling up to murderous dictators.

At home, it holds mass executions of criminals with bullets in the back of the head while transplant surgeons stand by to harvest their still pulsating organs.

Yet Western governments have been in such awe of China's looming power that their response has not been to challenge its abuses, but to try to silence their own protesters at home.

From the UN to the IMF to the World Bank, the international institutions that attempt to govern the planet were made in the image of the victors of World War II. Now power is shifting from West to East, the whole liberal democratic world order will face its first serious challenge in decades.

Many fear that things could get ugly.

There is only one thing worse than an unchallenged superpower - it is a superpower with a victim mentality, which feels the world owes it a favour.

And the bitter truth is that, after centuries of humiliation in foreign affairs, there is a nationalist mood in China that the country's time has come again, that it can again claim its rightful place as the world's most powerful country.

Its comparative weakness over the last few centuries is, in fact, but a blip in the last 2,000 years, during which China was the world's most economically and culturally advanced nation.

It is an accident of history that Europeans took advantage of their window of opportunity in the last half of the second millennium to take over the world.

The cause was a combination of factors such as the development of maritime technology in Europe, the competition between European countries that drove them to look outwards and find new ways to increase prosperity, and the fact China remained firmly locked in its agrarian, introspective past.

Now things have changed, and already the shift in the world economy is starting to have dramatic effects on migration patterns.

The emigration of poor people from China and India to the West is slowing down, as their citizens see more hope in their own rapidly advancing nations.

Instead, their expanding middle classes are paying large fees for their children to enjoy a Western university education, before returning home.

There are now 60,000 Chinese students in Britain, more than from any other country.

Westerners have become accustomed to being the only tourists in the world's tourist hotspots, but the Chinese and Indians want to enjoy the fruits of their labour by expanding their horizons, too.

Chinese tourists are likely to replace American tourists as popular irritants in Britain, and replace the Germans as competitors for the ski lifts.

As the opportunities flow from West to East, so too do the people.

India is luring the global Indian diaspora back, with laws that would be judged racist in Britain, offering visas to anyone living in the West with Indian blood in their veins.

Even some non-Indian Westerners are heading East for opportunities greater than they find at home.

The West's cultural supremacy is likely to be as challenged as its economic supremacy.

As their economic confidence grows, Asians are discovering pride in their own cultures and are less inclined to mimic Western ones.

There is an infectious confidence in Bollywood, and the price of Chinese antiques is rocketing as the newly rich Chinese decide they want a slice of their history. Western culture, like the dollar, will soon find its heyday behind it.

But Western attitudes will change as well, with a likely shift to the political Right. White liberal guilt, the driving force behind political correctness, will subside as Westerners feel threatened by the global order changing, and their supremacy slipping away.

Anti-Americanism will disappear as Europeans realise how much better it was to have a world super power that was a democracy (however flawed) not a dictatorship.

There is even speculation that the intense economic pressure on countries such as Britain will cause them to trim down their bloated welfare state, simply because it will no longer be affordable at present levels.

Western attitudes of superiority to China and the rest of the East will also subside, as Westerners realise they are no longer the masters of the world.

The U.S. company Orient Express complained when Tata tried to buy it, that any association with the Indian company would damage the Orient Express's premium brand.

Responding, R K Krishna Kumar, a senior Tata executive, thundered that "Indian companies ... will take their rightful place in the international arena.

"Enterprises and individuals must recognise and adapt to these fundamental economic changes. We believe that those with a fossilised frame of mind risk being marginalised."

In a world in which we are no longer masters, it is a warning that we ignore at our peril.

 

Well the news is all awash in the latest crisis......

http://cbs5.com/wrapper_consumer/see....2.705309.html

The main stores listed for rationing are Sam's Club and Costco. Would be interesting to know if there are any other major chains doing this as well.

According to the UN there are 100 million more people world wide receiving food aid than six months ago.

Could this be an introduction of the "black horse" mentioned in Revelation Ch 6?

5 When the Lamb broke the third seal, I heard the third living being say, “Come!” I looked up and saw a black horse, and its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice from among the four living beings say, “A loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley will cost a day’s pay.[b] And don’t waste[c] the olive oil and wine.”

 

Funny You Say that. Here is another

Behold a Black Horse - America faces food rationing?

http://nysun.com/news/food-rationing...adbasket-world

"When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, 'Come and see.' So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, 'A quart of wheat for a denarius (average food price x12), and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.'" Revelation 6:5-6

Many parts of America, long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon: food rationing.

Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England, and on the West Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers are hoarding grain stocks.

At a Costco Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif., yesterday, shoppers grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy.

“Where’s the rice?” an engineer from Palo Alto, Calif., Yajun Liu, said. “You should be able to buy something like rice. This is ridiculous.”

The bustling store in the heart of Silicon Valley usually sells four or five varieties of rice to a clientele largely of Asian immigrants, but only about half a pallet of Indian-grown Basmati rice was left in stock. A 20-pound bag was selling for $15.99.

“You can’t eat this every day. It’s too heavy,” a health care executive from Palo Alto, Sharad Patel, grumbled as his son loaded two sacks of the Basmati into a shopping cart. “We only need one bag but I’m getting two in case a neighbor or a friend needs it,” the elder man said.

The Patels seemed headed for disappointment, as most Costco members were being allowed to buy only one bag. Moments earlier, a clerk dropped two sacks back on the stack after taking them from another customer who tried to exceed the one-bag cap.

“Due to the limited availability of rice, we are limiting rice purchases based on your prior purchasing history,” a sign above the dwindling supply said.

Shoppers said the limits had been in place for a few days, and that rice supplies had been spotty for a few weeks. A store manager referred questions to officials at Costco headquarters near Seattle, who did not return calls or e-mail messages yesterday.

An employee at the Costco store in Queens said there were no restrictions on rice buying, but limits were being imposed on purchases of oil and flour.

Internet postings attributed some of the shortage at the retail level to bakery owners who flocked to warehouse stores when the price of flour from commercial suppliers doubled.

The curbs and shortages are being tracked with concern by survivalists who view the phenomenon as a harbinger of more serious trouble to come.

“It’s sporadic. It’s not every store, but it’s becoming more commonplace,” the editor of SurvivalBlog.com, James Rawles, said. “The number of reports I’ve been getting from readers who have seen signs posted with limits has increased almost exponentially, I’d say in the last three to five weeks.”

Spiking food prices have led to riots in recent weeks in Haiti, Indonesia, and several African nations.

India recently banned export of all but the highest quality rice, and Vietnam blocked the signing of a new contract for foreign rice sales.

“I’m surprised the Bush administration hasn’t slapped export controls on wheat,” Mr. Rawles said. “The Asian countries are here buying every kind of wheat.”

Mr. Rawles said it is hard to know how much of the shortages are due to lagging supply and how much is caused by consumers hedging against future price hikes or a total lack of product.

“There have been so many stories about worldwide shortages that it encourages people to stock up. What most people don’t realize is that supply chains have changed, so inventories are very short,” Mr. Rawles, a former Army intelligence officer, said. “Even if people increased their purchasing by 20%, all the store shelves would be wiped out.”

At the moment, large chain retailers seem more prone to shortages and limits than do smaller chains and mom-and-pop stores, perhaps because store managers at the larger companies have less discretion to increase prices locally.

Mr. Rawles said the spot shortages seemed to be most frequent in the Northeast and all the way along the West Coast. He said he had heard reports of buying limits at Sam’s Club warehouses, which are owned by Wal-Mart Stores, but a spokesman for the company, Kory Lundberg, said he was not aware of any shortages or limits.

An anonymous high-tech professional writing on an investment Web site, Seeking Alpha, said he recently bought 10 50-pound bags of rice at Costco. “I am concerned that when the news of rice shortage spreads, there will be panic buying and the shelves will be empty in no time. I do not intend to cause a panic, and I am not speculating on rice to make profit. I am just hoarding some for my own consumption,” he wrote.

For now, rice is available at Asian markets in California, though consumers have fewer choices when buying the largest bags. “At our neighborhood store, it’s very expensive, more than $30” for a 25-pound bag, a housewife from Mountain View, Theresa Esquerra, said. “I’m not going to pay $30. Maybe we’ll just eat bread.”

 

This one is Very Interesting!

2012: Mayans, Nostradamus & The Bible

http://www.raidersnewsnetwork.com/full.php?news=14815

There has been much talk of late about the supposed doomsday prediction of December 21, 2012 as reflected in the Mayan long calendar. Most of the ancient Mayan codices were burned by Spanish monks in 1521 as works of the devil. A few survived including the so called Dresden Codex. This 74 page codex written on tree bark and apparently from the famous Mayan temple and observatory at Chichen Itza was sent by Cortes to Emperor Charles V in 1519. Somehow it found its way to the Royal Library at the Court of Saxony in Dresden where it was purchased from a private collector by Johann Christian Goetze. While it was damaged by the fire bombing of Dresden during WWII, much has survived.

From this work, which was written between 1200 and 1250 AD, numerous astronomical and calendar data points were found including information on eclipses, the transit of the planet Venus as well as information on the motion of the moon, stars and the sun. It has been determined by research scholars that the Mayan long count calendar ends on 13.0.0.0.0 which equates to our date of December 21, 2012 at 10AM GMT. On that day it has been surmised the end will come.

According to my research, many have tried to tie this upcoming apocalyptic winter solstice day with a solar shift, solar storms, and a transit of Venus as well as with severe earthquakes. Is there any truth to these allegations? According to some astronomers, on this day our solar system will intersect with the Galactic Equator which only happens every 26,000 years. Since the Mayan calendar began in 3114 BC, they had never experienced anything like this before. The Mayans called this event the Sacred Tree. This alignment with the center of the galaxy also allows for maximum mass and thus maximum gravity.

According to the National Earthquake Information Service of the US Geological Survey, earthquakes have gradually increased from 1 severe quake between 1890 and 1899 to 765 from 2000-2004. Could this be due to our solar systems movement towards this Galactic Equator?

NASA predicts that a terrific solar storm will hit the earth in 2012 which will be 30-50 percent greater than anything before it. I believe that there has been global warming over the past decades but it is related to sunspot activity on the sun not carbon dioxide emissions. The sun has gotten hotter and that has affected the earth. A massive solar blast from the sun in 2012 could burn up the earth as could a collision with an asteroid or a comet.

There has even been talk of a polar shift which could disrupt the functioning of the entire earth and could change the axis of rotation. Such a shift has taken place in our geologic past and could happen again. If it happened on December, 21, 2012, it would truly be a day to remember.

This apocalyptic date of December 21, 2012 is also supposedly found in Hopi myths, the I-Ching, Aztec writings, Egyptian hieroglyphs, Roman Oracles, writing of Seneca Elders, the chief Shaman of the Cherokee Tribe in NC, and even the writings of Nostradamus, The Russian mathematician Sergey Smelyakov of Khartov University taking the constant Phi (1.6180339), the so called Golden Mean or the Fibonacci sequence, and applying it to solar activity and planetary orbits, found that everything seemed to spiral in on itself on December 21, 2012 implying a time implosion or point of bifurcation.

The planet Venus is set to make a transit across the face of the sun on December 21, 2012 which happens very infrequently. It did happen recently, however, on June 8, 2004 which means it will happen again in eight years which is very unusual but predicted by the Mayans.

I cannot tell you for certain that the earth will be consumed by fire in 2012 or that there will be a polar shift or severe earthquakes, but I can tell you with certainty that one day in the not too distant future it will be consumed by fire and experience a polar shift and severe earthquakes. I can say that because the word of God says so and it did beginning over 2700 years ago, long before the Mayans or the Aztecs or the Hopi or the Seneca or the I-Ching or Nostradamus.

Once before because of its sin the earth was destroyed by water in the Great Flood of Noah's day but the Bible says that the world will be destroyed again, this time by fire.

"The present heavens and earth, by His word, are being reserved for fire, kept for the Day of Judgment and the destruction of ungodly men" (2Peter 3:7).

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat and the earth and its works will be burned up" (2Peter 3:10).

"The sun scorched men with fire" (Revelation 16:8).

"A third of the earth was burned up and a third of the trees were burned up and all the green grass was burned up. A great mountain (asteroid?) burning with fire was thrown into the sea and a third of the sea became blood and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life died and a third of the ships were destroyed. And a great star (comet?) fell from heaven burning like a torch and it fell on a third of the rivers and springs of water (Revelation 8:7-11).

"The inhabitants of the earth are burned and few men are left" (Isaiah 24:6).

"The hills melt and the earth is burned up" (Nahum 1:5).

Once again, many have associated December 21, 2012 with a shift in the poles as well as signs in the sky. What does the Bible tell us about these events?

"The stars will fall from the sky" (Matthew 24:29).

If the earth shifts on its axis and we are thrown around, the stars will appear to fall but it will actually be us that are moving.

"The earth is broken asunder. The earth is split through. The earth is shaken violently. Thee earth reels to and fro like a drunkard and it totters like a shack "(Isaiah 24:19-20).

Once again a shift in the polar axis might tear the earth apart.

"There will be great earthquakes. The sun became black like sackcloth; the moon became like blood.The stars of the sky fell to the earth... The sky split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up.every mountain and island moved out of their place' (Revelation 6:12-14).

More shaking of the earth.

"There will be great earthquakes and in various places plagues and famines and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. There will be signs in the sun and the moon and stars and upon the earth great dismay among nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves. Men fainting from fear as the powers of heaven will be shaken" (Luke 21:9, 25-26).

Here we see the Bible tell us about signs in the heavens spoken of in relation to December 21, 2012. But what do we do when we see these things happening?

"When you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you that this generation will not pass away until all things take place.But when these things begin to take place straighten up and lift up your heads because your redemption is drawing near" (Luke 21:31,32, 28).

God assures us that:

"Heaven and earth will pass away but My words shall not pass away" (Matthew 24:35).

Some people ask why God takes so long to punish the ungodly:

"The Lord is not slow about His promise as some count slowness but is patient toward you not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance (2Peter 3:9).

Remember this as the end fast approaches.

 

Good post Slim...

Bible passage that came to mind when I read about the stellar occurences happening in conjunction with 12/21/2012

Luke 21:24-26
24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

 

This all makes me wonder if the Trib is just 3 1/2 years.. I have done some research and have come pretty much to a conclusion that there is no Raptur, as some believe befor the Trib of 7 years..

If this is the case then what I have come up with, which is not new by any standerds. But it does make more sense..
I got to thinking again on the end subject.
Let say HYPOTHETICAL that the end is 2012, hold on let me see if I get it right.




Daniel states that the end will come 1335 days after the abomination of desalation is set up.. and when the daily sacrifice is taken away..
I went back wards on this so I am sure it is not right but interesting none the less..
1335 divided by 364 day for a year is = 3.6 that is 3&1/2 years..

Take that from 2012 ,,,, 2012-3 1/2 years= 2008.4 Year if 2008 well we are seeing quit alot, maybe thats why the oil is going up? they know something we dont


Now in earlier threads I stated the Israel got the land back in 1967, and they are the fig tree spoken of by Christ in the gosphels.. he said in short that,--that generation will not pass before it see's these things come to pass.. Now a generation according to the bible was 40 years.

40 + 1967= 2007 do we include leap years?
also in I bleieve it was Isaiah that after Israel got there land back they would be fed the bread of adversity, and though they will prosper during this time, and it states this time as when the Towers fall, the great slaughter.. The only towers I know of falling since 1948 or 1967 is in 2001.. it says that Gods light will go out to man for 7 years, then His indignation causes the nation to err.. Thus a beginning to something terrible.
2001 +7= 2008.. All three of these are the same time frame..

I just find it interesting..

Slimland

 

Slim I think you may be on to something about the 3 1/2 years on the trib. I cant go into a lot of detail about it right now but I have wondered if the trib is a full seven years.......just that the first half (3 1/2 years) is already past. And the second half is yet to come. The first half being the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry. It has to do with a lesson I heard once about prophecies in the book of Daniel. Specifically about a break between the 69th and 70th weeks. What if the break is during the 69 and 1/2 week?

More to come...

 

I pretty sure we are thinking the same thing then.. Hold on let me stop what I am listning to..

Dadgumit-- I know I have posted this befor but cant find it...

:evil:

Let me see if I can remember..

You know what you do it Redeemed, I have posted it befor cant find it though..

Artaxeres sent the decree out in 444-445 BC, in short 480 years later messiah onointed and a the last week he is sacrificed in the middle of that week.. Then desalations are determent upon Israelites until, if I remember right the gentile rule is over.. Then the last 3 and a half years, finaly comes into play as the Great Trib//..

You do it.. I just spent about 30min going through old post.. :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol:

 

Ok People I have found 2 links a part 1 and 2 to something we have been talking about.. It is a scientific view point on 2012 and prophecy.
In all it takes about 45 miniuts, 22 miniuts for each part..
But this is very interesting, and I have sent it to my friends and they think I should post it so here it is.

Part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecTE6...eature=related


Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZUzF...eature=related

If you watch it Please post a comment.. On the subject.

 

Ok Slim, I started a search for it and found only one post so far. But still looking. I am not sure how often CAD archives but depending on that and on how far back the post is we may have a hard time.

This is from a 9/3/2006 post from you on your debate and discussion thread. I will still keep looking.